Since I did it for Shang Ji, i also made a comparison of similar troops to the Hulang in other factions. All mid-field, multi-wound troops. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FIC_HrjoxBJafOsdEWEepGPEdbjMZFbK/view?usp=sharing
I think your costs are off sadly. TO Camo costs around 8 while Frenzy will get you back 8 to 10 (it seems to vary beyond a simple fractional cost rounding up or down). Specialist and D-Charges will only cost you a point which would imply Specialist alone is either free or fractional. Interestingly (given your point about frenzy) you could probably take Infiltration and Limited Camo for 4 to 5 points which would combine to give you something more in line with the points saving you were describing.
You are correct, I am thinking about ODD, but no, the point would be to avoid Infiltration and keep the low cost FD2 and emulate a sort of weird implementation of Oniwaban, not fully, but partially in the field where IA needs it the most (which is at home)
FD2 also costs more than infiltration despite being weaker. It's one of the ways that CB balance some of their unit costs by having two comparable skills but one more expensive than the other (or that's the conclusion I've reached as I can't believe their maths is that bad :) )
I think Shikami needs to be in that comparison, my perception of the Hulang is that the Shikami is what it was trying to replace after Yu Jing got fucked by Uprising
From what I can derive, FD2 is about 1 point while Infiltration is around 5 to 7? But looking at it again... this makes no sense. On Sepulchre FD2 is clearly 6 points while on Ko Dali, it's 3 points AND Mimetism cheaper than AD4, which isn't an expensive skill while comparing Greif and Govads it's hard to see if FD2 on Greif costs anything. It's hard to tell, but it does seem like Hulang is paying the Sepulchre cost for FD2 considering there's only 5 points between the Zhencha and Hulang and considering the Zhencha is paying about 10 for Camo+Infil... Dammit, CB, no wonder Hulang are considered stupid by people if you assign arbitrary cost increases on them like this. So, the quick fix for Hulang is now; give them Greif/Ko Dali FD2 instead of Sepulchre FD2 and drop them 5 points in cost.
I had it in there but took it out because of the lack of either starting or getting into the midfield fast. Super Jump and Climb+ are great but doesn't really make you faster.
Models get hand adjusted discounts, don't forget about that. Sometimes things are cheaper just because reasons.
I think those are the “holistic” point changes. Meaning while X’s points on it’s own seem high, when you pair it with Y it’s much better. Unfortunately they don’t always think of it. For example: Jaguar and Intruder. The Jag is just too good for how great he makes the Intruder. Make him irregular and Impetuous and he’d be a little less so.
I haven't seen any evidence of that since HSN3. They do have systemic ways of making discounts or drawbacks, in this case I suspect that FD2 is grossly overpriced on heavy infantry (there's a bunch of things that are much more expensive on HI). This way they can often make hand-adjustments by making use of their systems, but two models with exactly the same stats will have exactly the same cost regardless of where they are located - provided the points system hasn't been updated between the two are released (see: Hexa vs Lynx)
For me, one of the most important aspects of the Oni is tha they are at your doorstep. Not having either infiltration nor Camo takes this away from the Hulang. In my head, they are evolved Zerglings: you see them coming at you and start shooting with full burst but can't hit them (or at least not hard enough). Once they get to you, it's done.
Using Superior Infiltration is a bit too touch and go for me. Roll 16 or below and they'll completely dictate the game. Roll 17 to 20 and you're fighting at a strong disadvantage. Regular infiltration is a 50-50, and often on models that can derive less advantage from succeeding (obvious exception is the PH-3=9 Ninja). Having a heavy infantry replace this behaviour is going to be extremely costly, not the least if there's extra cost increases involved just because of having the privilege of putting all your eggs in one basket (aka heavy infantry). I'm not sure neither that is desirable nor that replacing the Oni with a heavy Oni is desirable. Going with Starcraft references, to me Oni is a Dark Templar while Hulang is more like a buried Ultra. Zerglings, now that's more like Shaolin or Taigha :)
Just take a look at the absolutely batshit random way the Total Immunity points were increased between Dogs, McMurder, Karakuri, and Sun Tze. Dogs and Karakuri got the same points charge of 3pts McMurder got a smaller charge despite changing impetuous types and picking up an additional rule. And to top it off Sun Tze got it for free. The TacAw change on TAGs was entirely arbitrary too. There was a magic handwave of TAGs above X cost don't get charged for the same rule. Then there's LT2. Asuras pay 2pts. Tarik pays 4pts. Daoying and Gao pay 0pts. I'm telling you there's a huge chunk of this game's unit profiles that are hand adjusted, just that the supposed formula CB adheres to is too shrouded in mystery that most of it flies under the radar. Mind you I don't think that this game needs to follow a formula and I think things should be hand adjusted on a regular basis, I do however think that people seem to put this supposed formula on a ridiculous pedestal of optimal game balance.
Haven't got much problems with the implementation of Total Immunity other than the extra buffs that McMurder got - clearly the profiles were re-evaluated. All in all they got applied to profiles in need of them and largely the end results are proving mostly beneficial to faction balance, McMurder being the outlier. As for TacAware, to me what this looks like is a systemic alteration. I don't agree with it simply because I don't think all TAGs had equal need of this buff and that the need wasn't tied to specific cost ranges, but it's systemic in that TAGs over a specific value were determined to benefit less per army list from it and thus weren't charged for it, and orders really work that way - they get more valuable the more there are of them so an expensive unit gets less value out of it. LT2 on Asuras is interesting. Tarik deserves all the Automedikits they can throw on him, but the extra cost on Asuras for LT2 certainly is highly suspect and disappointing. If you're going to hand-adjust you need to go all in on it and do those adjustments with a purpose and a lot of testing.
Total immunity is a bad rule in general. There is no reason for dog warriors or Karakuri to be less exploded by an anti tank missile than anything else. If it is mutant healing factor, give them regeneration (and make regen suck less). If it is damage resistance, give them higher ARM. If it is durability, give them higher W/STR. If it is tenacity give them levels of courage. Total Immunity is pure rules bloat and should be deleted.
It's because the Hulang brings together a lot of interesting concepts for Yu Jing, but implements none of them particularly well. So you get a lot of people who like the profile for different reasons, with a lot of different ways to take it that make him a better trooper. It's an interesting trooper for IA, which they really don't get enough of. Of course everyone wants to save it.
Lets hear our best comments so far, so remembered... "How an Earth Hulang's a disappointment?" - P.Storm
Hulang should be good if you're playing vanilla. You can give him smoke coverage with monks pretty reliably and even if he's not slashing away at people he can touch buttons. I've always liked the idea of taking out AROs with the Hsien and Nimbus support, freeing the way for the Hulang to do his thing. Plus, Guilang and Liberto minelayers, Ninja hacker and/or the Kanren with MadTraps do provide the cover he needs. I'm not saying it's the best nor the cheapest, but It certainly looks viable at least.
