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Special Dodge and sixth sense ARO

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Tanan, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    Correct if I’m wrong, but before the last faq the only way to get hit by friendly attack was be in close combat and then friendlies had to miss the BS attack target number by 6 or less. This mattered little because everyone in close combat automatically passed all guts rolls. In all other cases the attack would be cancelled.

    After the faq, it became possible to hit friendlies with smoke, nimbus and eclipse grenade impact templates. While a convoluted (and somewhat contested) argument can be made that smoke grenade lacks the attack label, nimbus grenade definitely has the attack label. Trooper hit by an attack (with attack label) must make a guts roll. Trooper (voluntarily or involuntarily) failing a guts roll from an impact template weapon must up to 2” to abandon the danger zone —> you can now move multiple friendly models by hitting them with nimbus grenade and this movement doesn’t provoke enemy AROs. Totally intended and balanced :)

    Or perhaps there is a rule somewhere that friendly fire never triggers a guts roll.
     
  2. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Now please state for the record, under oath, that you’ve rolled guts checks for enemy models under those same templates.
     
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  3. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    @solkan Sorry, can’t do that. I play Ariadna.

    If I could write the rules, I would reclassify all non-lethal grenades as attacks. Hitting a friendly trooper with a smoke grenade would cancel the attack. Enemies hit by smoke grenade could abandon the danger zone by failing a guts roll. 6th sense models could shoot out of LoF troopers that throw a smoke grenade etc.
     
  4. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    damn me, you come back to the rules section for one post.....

    The density of a couple of posters here legit breaks me.
     
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  5. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    also, that FAQ also allows to hit friendly troopers with the riotstoppers (template attack with no damage value), when obviously,that was not the intent
     
  6. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    @Armihaul Riotstoppers are direct template weapons. Faq only allowed friendlies to be hit by certain impact template weapons. This is ofc assuming that CB knows what it’s doing when it releases a faq.
     
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  7. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    FAQ allows friendly troopers to be hit by direct template weapons with no damage value, the weapons listed are just examples. Riotstoppers are in those. Is just that, when that FAQ was done, riotstoppers didn't exist. That's just another example why using FAQ to do ruling is bad in so many ways. They need to check this out soon
     
  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    No, it doesn't.

    Q: Can weapons with the Impact Template Trait and no value in the damage attribute be fired with allied troopes in their area of effect? For example, a Smoke Grenade, an Eclipse Grenade or a Nimbus Grenade.
    A: Yes.

    Riotstoppers are Direct Template Weapons, not Impact Template Weapons.
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Thanks for explaining further, this wasn't clear from your earlier post.

    As far as 'somewhat contested' goes, this is the first time I've ever seen anyone make this claim. I can pretty much guarantee that if this is bumped up to CB they'll say that Guts Rolls require the weapon to be capable of affecting the trooper in some way.
     
  10. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    @ijw can you clarify how Smoke ammo interacts with Stunned state, and whether attacks with Smoke are legal in Impetuous order, please?
     
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  11. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Ok, thanks for the clarification. (in spanish they used "terminal" instead of "impacto" for that)
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If they do, please remind them that they have already ruled in the rules that smoke affects the troopers touched by the template as per the rules for Smoke ammo and Templates. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Smoke_Special_Ammunition#Smoke_and_Template_Weapons

    I think a better solution would be to simply state that hits from smoke and nimbus are not considered attacks.
     
  13. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    @Mahtamori if non-lethal grenades are considered non-attacks, CB needs to clarify how they function with 6th sense, which currently needs attacks to trigger.

    IMHO non-lethal grenades are highly effective weapons. In other words, they significantly affect enemies and friendlies. Way more impactful than spotlight or forward observer, which trigger guts rolls.
     
    #53 Tanan, Nov 11, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    They won't need to clarify how Eclipse functions with 6S, because there will be a FAQ which says that the trooper is not attacked and the Sixth Sense rules say it works when the trooper is attacked - which it won't be. Not all interactions need to be clarified, otherwise the FAQ turns into a monstrosity that fully replaces the rulebook.
     
  15. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    So everyone is fine with my original post? 6th sense trooper can’t faceoff with the enemy and suffers -3 modifier to dodge ARO.

    Also in f2f situations, 6th sense trooper doesn’t ignore surprise shot modifier because special dodge isn’t an attack. I mean every veteran can smell a thermocamo sniper from a mile away, but no one can predict that camo marker could throw a smoke grenade from 8” away...
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Sixth Sense is very fractured. Dodging template weapons without MOD doesn't care if the template is an attack or not, so the Dodge for the Sixth Sense L2 trooper would be at straight PH.
    Same for Surprise Shot. Doesn't care if it is an attack or not.
     
  17. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    that only deppends if the template touches or not the trooper, because he is not an objective in the first place (6th sense would not activate if he is not objective)
     
  18. gorin

    gorin Well-Known Member

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    can i smokedodge on impetuous order? can i smokedodge while stunned?
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Impetuous Order has a list of skills allowed. BS Attack is on it.
    Can you smoke while stunned? IMO no, because the declaration is an attack, but the ammo's effect is not. Come to an agreement in your local meta.
     
  20. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    @Mahtamori you are mistaken. 6th Sense level 2 definitely needs an attack and targeting to be triggered. Special dodge doesn’t do either of those things.


    SIXTH SENSE LEVEL 2 AUTOMATIC SKILL
    Optional.
    REQUIREMENTS
    In order to use Sixth Sense L2, the user must be the target of an Attack.

    EFFECTS
    • Allows the user to respond with a Face to Face Roll to Attacks (and only Attacks) directed at him by an enemy outside his LoF and regardless the facing of the user.
    • If the user is the target of a Surprise Shot, he may ignore the negative MOD to his Roll imposed by any level of that Special Skill.
    • Sixth Sense L2 allows its user to respond to Attacks against him through a Zero Visibility Zone without suffering the usual -6 MOD.
    • When attacked with a template weapon from outside his LoF the user may ignore the -3 MODto Dodge a template from outside his LoF.
     
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