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In need of reinforcements! a.k.a. fitting 2nd army for an ariadna-player?

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Brawler, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. Brawler

    Brawler Well-Known Member

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    Hey, Y'all!

    The title (almost) says it all. I recently realized I have basically played Ariadna for my entire infinity career. I have dabbled a small bit in both PanO and Combined Army, albeit for a very short while. However, lately, I have been feeling that I need to start a second army to get a break from both painting camo. But also, descend from the murky low-tech depths that is USARF.

    Of course, there's plenty of threads asking about "what army is best", easiest to paint etc. to differentiate myself from those I'm specifically looking for the Ariadnan advice since you know which things you might miss when you play Ariadna. Sure, we might not be jealous of msv3 or TO:camo, but it might would be cool to try it out for a change?

    So, what do you Ariadnan players (that have a second, or perhaps a third army) enjoy playing when you need a break?

    If any personal input would be helpful in giving advice, I have compiled a tiny list of thoughts of what I'm looking for:

    - high-tech: Stuff like msv, TO:Camo, EVO-hacking, drones.
    - Elite: It would be great to play a 10 order list that isn't extremely handicapped or restricted. Sure, plenty of orders is fun but an elite force would be a nice change of pace.
    - Specialists! Specifically hackers. I feel I have missed out a bit of cool hacking playing USARF.
    - Fairly fast to paint. And yeah, speed is more important than easy, plenty of armor, few models.
    - TAG's. Don't have to be top of the line, just acceptable.

    So far I have been looking at CA, PanO (specifically NCA and MO), Yu Jing and... yeah, basically most armies I just realized. However, most seem to have some kind of imaginary flaw.

    So, any advice? Be it from competitive players to relaxed hobbyists, anything is appreciated.
    Cheers!
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Bakunin.
     
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  3. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    PanO or Haqqislam will both be different play styles, but if you go for the Druze then you can grab remotes and mercs that will be useful to both, you can use Ariadna LI models as brawler proxies, and the Anaconda will be available to you as well.
     
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  4. Renfri

    Renfri Well-Known Member

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    100% expected your to say ALEPH at the end of your post. You disapoint me Xagroth ;-)
     
  5. Renfri

    Renfri Well-Known Member

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    Although Vanilla ALEPH does not really tick all your boxes, I think you should consider Steel Phalanx.
     
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  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Vanilla lacks the required 10 man "elite", since you won't have access to Fireteams and the bread and butter will be Dakinis, specially if you wanna use the Marut. Vedic, however...

    In that regard, Bakunin is the most complete of the sectorials one can compare with the list. The Lizard not only is a "good enough" TAG, it's one of the only two with a Heavy Grenade Launcher. There are two options for an elite 5 man fireteam: Moiras (with or without Kusanagi and/or a Healer), and the Riot Grrrrls!! (who can also be fielded as a Haris!). They have the Zeroes as cheap specialists (only the foxtrot is cheaper! And they can be hackers of 2 types aswell), with prowlers for wreacking chaos if needed. The Morlocks provide close combat prowess, the Custodier (who can also go into a Haris... by themselves, or with Kusanagi and/or a Healer) are great hackers (if a bit pricey due to their ODD, they can do more stuff than the Interventors), then you have the EVO making a nice combo with Tsyklons, Lunokhods, specialist remotes and the flash pulse remotes (for a heavy reactive wall); then the Taskmaster can make a mess of the enemy if needed, and the Daktari and Clockmaker are great at what they do. Then we get to Zoe & Pi Well...

    In essence, Bakunin has almost everything in Infinity (lacking the Smoke combo), while Vanilla Aleph has to make choices because its troops are limited and more expensive. But the most deciding factor is simply that Aleph has 5 types of HI... of which three cost over 68pts, and the other two are Posthumans with 2SWC.

    It lacks tricks, like almost all. It would be like "Elite Caledonia following Wallace".
     
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  7. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    On Haqq, I'd say that depends on flavor of Haqq list/sectorial you are playing you can end up with either something different or more of the same. For one, Bahram lists tend to be pretty crowded and may include non-trivial number of markers.

    On the other hand, I expect Ramah to become something opposite.

    Granted, either way I feel switching to Haqq doesn't meet the requirement of lifting OP's burden of paining camos since most of Haqq troops inspire more realistic approach to painting them.

    Well, I guess you can still try to dodge that by picking units with more armor or decorative elements (Khwarijis, Odalisques, anything HI) and/or trying to make your dudes fit with more urban environment rather than field one, or go for something space-opera-ish (who said Infinity can't be one?) altogether.

    On those pics: I would like to give proper credits to author, but I'm afraid finding whose work is that will take quite a bit of time. If someone knows, feel free to post in a reply.
     
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  8. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I was asking myself the same question at the end of last season with roughly the same needs : low number army, high tech stuff and hacking (I apply a policy of "a new army each season").

    I choose Vanilla Aleph and it's a huge change compared to Ariadna (and I liked it).

    You have access to all the trick in the book : all the hacking device including hacking device plus (whithe noise), albedo, MSV2 + smoke, MSV3, DDO, TO, AD of all kind, nice REM (offensive and defensive), high WIP specialist, infiltrated TO and camo, crazy rambo unit and one of the strongest TAG in the game. You can even play some camo shell game if you feel like it (deploying your TO as camo, you can go up to 7 infiltrated camo marker).

    Also, most of the army as NWI. When you move from an army with a lot of troop like Ariadna to a 10 orders army, it's very helpful to have most of your troop able to take one wound. It bring more tolerance for mistake than most elite army, which is good to learn how to play 10 orders.
     
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  9. Renfri

    Renfri Well-Known Member

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    There are some, for instance MSV2 Agema + Smoke. Scylla & her remotes cybermasked etc. But I get your point and agree Bakunin ticks more boxes.
     
  10. Brawler

    Brawler Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Some great responses right away!
    Unfortunately, perhaps I should've stated this in the beginning, but I doubt I will be going for either Bakunin or Haqq, since the opponent I play the most versus has them and non-stop mirror matches doesn't really tickle my fancy.

    However, all valid points so far, I have been glancing quite some at Aleph. Both vanilla and Steel Phalanx. I really do like the idea and aesthetics of Vedic, but at the same time, SP seems to have a really cool playstyle. And perhaps Vedic will be a less elite army?

    I have considered DBS since they seem like the coolest cats out there, to be quite honest it's the 4-2 MOV that mostly put me off. I know it sounds picky, but after moving that darn Marauder-link I would really prefer at least one link to be 4-4. However, I haven't counted them out of the race yet, since the coolness-factor(and the Fatality L1 toolboxy Druze link seems awesome) is undeniable.

    Thanks for all the responses so far, they've given me quite a lot to think about. I am surprised that PanO has been mentioned only once, and no one has recommended Yu Jing. I'm not sure PanO is out of the race either, perhaps I'm blinded a bit by the thought of MO 10-order lists, and even a Seraph.

    Everything has something cool, in the end, I might collect them all, but until then every single piece of feedback is greatly appreciated!
     
  11. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    Pretty much, but I was suggesting Haqqislam as something for later, after the Druze, since a lot of the stuff in DBS is Haqqislam compatible one way or another,and they tend to be the decoration and/or armour plate heavy pieces, plus Haqqislam get that half a pound of pewter in the shape of a TAG...
     
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  12. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    YJ pulls the tricks with the fireteams on ISS, and with some troops in generic, but can be reduced to Su Jian + cheerleaders in a lot of situations (yes, it's an oversimplification, but...).

    PanO is all about TAGs. And Military Orders are... like a mid point between the melee of the JSA and the shootiness of ISS atm, but with pricey armors, which gets reduced most of the time to 2 Hospitalers + 3 Magisters, or Juana + maybe De Fersen + 3 or 4 Hospitalers... The only fun comes with the Mercenaries extra, because suddenly Juana explodes her Inspiring Leadership thanks to Yuan Yuan, extra Warcors, and the bashi bazouks you have no way of knowing if they are indeed bashi bazouk or Sepulcher HI.

    Then Generic Aleph. The greeks are an assault faction, without much in the way of hacking (aside from Scylla and the Myrmidon Assault Hacker, Tamiris... only sees table in Campaigns), and can be reduced to: get Machaon, get Phoenix, get the Myrmidon box, get Thrasimedes, get the Thorakitai box, get an agema (sniper, Teucer or Atalanta) and little more... The 300 pts box is good, but Penthesilea is the "discount tax" (she is too dependant on the terrain), Ajax is good but not terribly so, etc... Ah, and you can get Achilles if you want, or Hector for Limited Insertion games.
    The true "problems" the greeks face are the Reactive turn and the Shock ammo.

    Generic Aleph, however, demands clever uses of the Dakinis ("dumb" rocks... but can really hold their ground. And great Paramedics for objective grabbing), intelligent deployment for the Nagas and Dasyus, choice of carrying or not MSV2 or 3 (nearly ALL of your troops have nanopulsers!), the GREAT 27 pts Deva + Devabot troop, the Danavas hacker (a less optimized Interventor, I would have loved to get a 20 pts KHD), etc...
    The main problem of Generic Aleph is how skewed like a Gauss Bell curve the quality of the troops shows up (be it because of point costs, or because of SWC costs). Everything is more or less "Elite", with the Dakinis being "bad" at shooting but great at "being shot at" and holding ground, the posthumans and Devas being a must but on the pricier side, and the HI being very limited in the amount you can deploy. Nothing prevents you from using Achilles here, btw :p

    Also, Aleph Vs Nomads can be played in a lot of ways, but Greeks vs Nomads is kinda meh, since almost nothing the greek deploy can be hacked (aside from Scylla, the devabots, the common remotes, Achilles, Hector and Ajax).


    In short: maximum options, but being forced to choose, and good at Limited Insertion: Generic Aleph, then expand some to the Greeks (some Agema, the Myrmidon box, the Specops, Achilles... maybe some Thorakitai...), and enjoy Vedic once its out. And the posthumans are as sweet as a TAG...
    Ah, the Marut is great but... too pricey in SWC. 3 from the marut, 2 from a single posthuman, then 2 hackers... out of SWC.
     
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  13. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree : you don't have to take mk3/4, with the marut mk1 engineer, mk2 hacker and mk5 fo is a great choice (low cost, low SWC). Plus, if you play the marut, you can go for a full STR list (marut, zayin, daikini HMG and paramedics + hacker/proxy/naga for support/objectives + 1 16 points myrmidon). I have played this on all kind of mission from direct op to special op and never felt the marut was overpriced

    And, coming fom ariadna, the marut is a lot of fun to play. It give you a lot of things you never had with ariadna :
    - it can tank a lot of damage (arm 11 in cover + repairable with WIP 15 engineers + need to take 5 damages to be fully destroyed) => in ariadna, usually, taking one shot means dying, here you can take a ML shot and not go down
    - BS 15 is a bliss,even better when ignoring all camo/to malus
    - smoke tricks are insanes
    - strategos lvl 3 for full control of the deployment (even better when deploying second)
     
  14. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    If the Druze weren't available then I'd have probably suggested that you get an operation: noun adjective box and it's associated beyond box that would get you 2 300p lists. My own preference would be red veil since there is very likely to be a 300 point 10 model Military Orders box deal at some point in the next year or so...

    There's a real temptation to dip into every faction eventually in infinity, and honestly with new NA2 lists coming, I think that it is only going to be more tempting...
     
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  15. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I will swear for my mk4 HRL anytime, mate. She has more TAG's wrecked acting as an ARO piece than my whole armies together XD. sure she also dies a lot... but it ALWAYS make it worth it, because it's an ARO troop that makes you loose NO ORDER when dying!!! XD
    And yeah, I'm aware you cannot rerroll to heal the mk4 since they have no Cube. Funnily enough, RAW it can be argued that you CAN with a troop with both Engineer and Medic (like the Sophotect).

    And I have took down Maruts aswell with a humble BS Fraacta on one side ("just passying by, oh, you fire at me? Eat this") and an Overdron on the other ("Can't see this!"), two orders to wreck her...

    But my point is that most of the good toys in Aleph cost SWC, and SWC becomes the "premium currency" here. Does the Marut pay off? Yeah. Better than a Spitfire Asura? Well... I'd say that the better range band is not really that great, but the real value here is the Strategos N2 and N3 levels (the N1 is the most situational with the Avatar's, since both will want to eat orders instead of granting them) combined with the Posthumans (see: 3 proxies, one or two Yudbots and the Marut are the "2 figures" I saved for las, against the none you were able to) and the Anti Material capabilities of the HMG Multi. Otherwise... the Asura takes less Opportunity Cost by the simple math of costing about 48 less points ^^U
     
  16. Abydog

    Abydog Well-Known Member

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    For me, coming from Ariadna, this step was taking JSA as my second army. It is sufficiently technolodigly advanced with access to TO, hacking, evo, MSV, etc. But it gives other interesting options than ariadna with more bikes and a tendency to cc / martial arts.
     
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