So, I will join a tournament next month, and this time I cannot decide if I want to play Haqq or Hassassins. Till now I always played Haqq in Tourneys, but last year I tried Hassassins and even won our club league, to my big surprise, with all but one 3 TP victories. So somehow Hassassins fit my playstyle and the Asawira Haris is a lot of fun. On top of that, the background and look of the Sectorial are great. But I find listbuilding to be quite a PITA with them and also I really love to have all my great toys available in Haqq. So far, so undecided. Now the next thing are the missions: Deadly Dance Highly Classified Aquisition Somehow I cant figure out, which of my two choices would be better suited for them. And thats where you all are coming into play. Help me out a little with tips, ideas, suggestions and what have you. I intend this to be a little like a brainstorming session, that will help me decide in the end. I am not asking for complete lists here, because that is rather pointless imho (and boring too), just advice on what works good for you in those (kind of) missions, which units solve the problems for you, that might come up and how you deal with with TAGs with Hassassins and their lack of concerning Deadly Dance? Now I am curious, what you will come up with.
I would totally play DD with HB. Link of Muyibs (or maybe even two of them) can succesfully follow the designsted area, play with the consoles and take down enemy TAG with loads of Panzerfausts or DEPs. I would consider taking tanky specialist as well (hello, Asawira) but she costs almostas much as two Farzan FOs or two Muyib FOs, so i think i would end up without her. Also, Ghazis. So yeah, HB for me with this one. Because of the ability to dispose one or two fast links. Highly Classified would be much funnier with Vanilla tho. Tuareg Doc is really good with healing rambo models (Tarik, Kums [because Dogged is meh] HMG weilders) and securing HVTs, you have two operational Engineers here, Kums are lovely for coup'de-grace-and-forget. With HB, i would prolly setup a minefield in the middle lane to slow enemy advance, and hunt at least one specialist with Fiday (or two with Ayyar). Still i would feel more safe with vanilla. Aquisition is easily acomplishable with both choices. Most of the SO's you would use are already in HB, so you could help 'em with defensive Ghulam link and Asa Haris. Farzans and Ayyar would look great here. So yeah, i would go with HB, just because of DD scenario.
That's an interesting way of using them. Would you run an undersized Core, or maybe a Haris for that?
well, i'm a mainly HB player and i would use vanilla for DD because i like the excuse to play with maggie, but if you don't have or don't wanna play with it, HB have a lot of ways to deal with TAGs (Fidays, daylamis, ghazis, hackers, Muyibs and more...), besides that HB can easily dominate the field with mines and others speed bumps and ways to denial your opponent points
i would prob use 2 farzans minelayer, 4 ghazis, 3~ daylamis, 1 fiday (with mines), muyibs at your choice and sprinkle anything that suits you
I like running small cores, esp. because you can have a wonderful Asa haris alongside them. It is lil pricey tho, 5 Muyibs is ap. 140 pts. Adding Asawira to the mix boost it up to 190. with 2 links, i think i would go with 1st group between 8 and 10 orders and 2nd group made from irregulars and cheap regular piece. Two cores with 5B Spitfires, 2 SO's and lots of EXP or AP DA ammo sounds really good for this scenario. Running just 5-man core without Asa lets you pack about 2 orders more, which is important if you want to run additional attack piece like Ayyar with e/m ammo that can ruin TAGs day. If you ask me, i would go with 5man with Kameel behind them for refills and KHD Barid. EDIT: Mostly because 5-man link grants you those 2PNZRF's in one ARO for 3 orders, if your opponent's TAG is picking you one by one. Order consuming, and pretty risky if you ask me.
I have done Deadly Dance with HB. I ran a Ghulam core with twin Missile Launchers. Heres the list. I didnt use Daylami because our meta has a lot of combined and Pano Tag players using their ODD and TO tags. Not much use there for the daylami. Mileage may vary though. Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17) GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) ASAWIRA (Fireteam: Haris) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 44) MUYIB Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. Antipersonnel Mines, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) BARID Hacker (Assault Hacking Device UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) FIDAY Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) GROUP 2 4 4 4 MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army The Barid is an absolute god. Icebreaker ruins peoples day. Especially if you can get your Muyib up to Drop a E-Mauler, and get a Pitcher, or Remote close. The Rafiq+Fanous combo is to uncover those TO hiding TAG's or midfield AHD's that will be popular to counter enemy tag's. The Fiday can be used to hunt the back line Engineers (these exist), or engage the TAG directly if its available. MA2 gives +3 to DMG so a PHYS 16 AP weapon hit is nothing to scoff at. Then of course Mutts....because mutts. E/Marats, and Jammers also ruin TAG's. Leila is there to murder enemy hackers if a pitcher drops near a Camo token. Use mutts or Rafiq to uncover it.
Thanks guys for your input so far. It already made me thinking. Also I forgot to mention, I have a 2 Mutt hard cap. Yeah, a second Muyib Link besides my Asa/Muy Haris would be be pretty interesting. The problem is, I lack the points for for it, even for just 3, if I want two groups with 7 regular orders and one Skirmisher od AD troop. Might play around a little with list, to see, if I can fit them in somehow, because they would really be an asset in this Mission if there is a TAG. But my primary focus would lie on the Haris. With a Asa Doc its worth around 100 points, so it can easily contest Quadrants. Throw a Ragik or Farzan in there too, and it is most likely yours. I just have to make sure, they dont get wiped out early, if ever. Highly Classified should be no problem with HB. Yes, Vanilla has all of the most fitting specialists, but HB will do. The Haris is the problem solver again. With a Doc and Hacker it can accomplish a lot of classifieds. Leila has D-Charges also, so even one more. Test run is the same as in vanilla and and the other Eng classified is a pain in both. So yeah, HB. Agree on Aqusition. Arent those mines a little wasted in case of DD? A TAG can just walk through them. Well, on the other hand, all of their bearers also have something with AP...could be worth it. Would you play a 5 man Muyib link? Your list has some merit...but I would want to fit my Asa Doc and an EVO in, since you already have a Rafiq and a Fanous. Sat-Lock on 13 is a powerful option sometimes, even if you dont have Guided Ammunition and with the EVO its a flat WIP roll. And I am missing Daylamis. Even against TO I find them useful. When a Cutter has to spend 5 orders for killing 3 of them, they did their job. I will fiddle around with your list a little and see what I can come up with. Btw, the Fiday has PH 15 with MA 2 ;) Now after reading and writing all of this, I think its not an issue of competitiveness if I play HB or Vanilla. Its more if I want to forfeit all the good vanilla stuff for a cool sectorial with list building that doesnt appeal to me.
Well, the mines are there for mid field control, they must use a TAG to tank the mines (wasting orders to move the TAG there and probably triggering more AROs) and risking taking damage, if they use another unit, they are mines... But you could use the Farzans with the BSG like you said, bonus if you use a coordinated order. and i would use a 5-man Muyib, yeah, they're our demolition experts! you could even bring the Muyib minelayer with the E/mauler, maybe drop somewhere near the enemy TAG and then shoot DEPs/Paunzerfausts! don't forget your baggage REM to keep those guns loaded. Well, i guess that you should go for the army that you like the most in that case.
Yeah, check this one maybe CwBgTAPgzCIRAOApFArMJYEE5VIIQZohICMYqyhKqJ5lBRtmCCAbIzXWG2J8SwR58fKMGTlgw0eLJhgpAjInyqpEmg7lWBUsihsM5bAHYkAAUViz5KGfxXgNsHd1E23bFF3YUbPMa+DihOcq7m5kA===. Sorry, i am at work right now, cant bother with more than army code.
Here's a list above for those not feeling like opening Army to put a code there: Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 ASAWIRA Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 39) MUYIB Rifle + Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) MUYIB Rifle + Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) MUYIB (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) MUYIB (X Visor) Spitfire, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28) MUYIB (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) FARZAN (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 2 3 DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8) DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8) RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) KAMEEL Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Hassassins are very strong but their strongest elements are things like Daylami LSg/Panzerfaust spam, Fidays, Ayyars, CoC Farzan and such. That is to say, not in Sectoral. So unless your plan involves putting orders into link teams, I'd say no. On the other hand, Hassassins do have some pretty strong links, and a notably great Haris in the form of the Asawira Spitfire and some Muyibs. So if you're going to take that, from a purely competitive PoV, I think they're a good choice.
Oh wow, i f'd up that list, shoulda stop replying in haste. The point was that OP can run both - two links (but now it's Asa Haris with two Muyibs and 3man core) and units he wants to run (Farzan, Evo if Rafiq, Daylami; also need to switch Ghulam' ML for SR). Thanks for noticing.
An EVO Hacker doesn't really seem hugely worth it in that list. Like, it's not giving you anything that you're really using.
It gives him access to the Rafiq due to being the only hacker... and is the only hacker you can deploy who is also very hard to kill just by hacking it to death ^^ Personally, considering how there is no AD troop and the only one who can use supportware is the "specialist remote", I'd go with a 16pts KHD Barid and save those 9 points for something else. You need an Asawira Haris, not the doctor. Remember the wording: up to 2 muyibs can join an Asawira haris, not the other way around. So you pick Asa Spitfire+Haris, Muyib doctor, Muyib basic (D-charges, panzerfaust...) on one side, and on the other 4 Muyibs and Leyla Sharif for the Core.
Its in, because I mentioned that I would want to put an EVO for Sat Lock on straight WIP in. With a Ragik it would be already worth it for me, to consider the EVO in DD. It has Baggage, which means you can put a lot of points in a Quadrant. Of course this is only easy to do, if the quadrant is on ones side of the table. If not, at least for a desperate run in the last turn its not to bad. But the problem is, after tempering with the list above, that I just do not find the points to fit all of it in a list. Besides that, I played DD now with following list: Deadly 2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 3 ASAWIRA (Fireteam: Haris) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 44) ASAWIRA Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 39) MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. Antipersonnel Mines, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) BARID (Forward Observer) Lieutenant Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) BARID Hacker (Assault Hacking Device UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) GROUP 2 7 2 2 LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) RAGIK Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 32) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army against Tohaa with a Gorgos. Sadly that game didnt teach me much, because my opponent was going first and gave up after his second turn due to having lost his Gorgos in his first turn (he was a little to aggressive) and me getting rid of everthing worth enough points to seriously contest a Quadrant. I would have had just to sit there in turn two and do nothing to score again. What Ive learned despite only having played one turn: Ghazi are mean (no big surprise) against camo. Beeing able to Intutive Attack on a TO Camo helps a lot. A Gorgos out of cover is in big danger even against above Ghulam Link Team. Asa Haris is great in Missions were you need to move points into a Quadrant and the mines help to keep them alive.
Thanks, but like I said, it was a far to easy win. I bet at the tournament I wont be so again. Nevertheless, my opponent learned from this game we will try it again. Hopefully I can manage to play DD against one of our PanO players and then i should be ready. Yeah, once you realised, that you can do a lot of stuff with two small er regular order greoups and a bunch of irregulars, winning became a lot easier. And you have a lot of bodies to control the board. The drawback is, you are quite in a hurry when it comes to a tournament, which leads to mistakes. A smaller list would be better in this regard. But with this list, I am also unhappy with how the groups are composed. First I would rather have a Barid Killer instead a FO and both of them in Group 2 since it is my utility group. Group one is solely to feed the Haris with orders. But first I would have to find two points, but I dont want to play a cheaper Ragik, because the range of the Spitfire allows me to move in, in places that are more safe. The Muyib is also untouchable, because those mines are to important for the Haris to survive. Same for the Doc. I have tried it with a Muyib Doc several time, he always becomes a primary target for the opponent. The Asa is more surviveable and with Regeneration you can try to heal him on the frontline. And even if I fin the two points, what goes into group 1? The Fanous is for ARO duty, so no. I need group 1 orders safe. The Ragik would drain orders from the Haris, but I want to put that investment to work. The Ghillim maybe...but sometimes they need many orders too, when they have to advance to deliver their specialists or get rid of light stuff....and then there would be 8 regulars in first group an only 6 in the second. The would have to go in group 1 too and well, they are part of my utility strategy which means no orders that would be for the Haris. And on top, a HMG Govad would often be soo helpful. Decisions, decisions^^ Thats why I like Vanilla besides the wide variance of troop profiles...list building is far easier.
