1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Yu Jing in N4

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    I mostly agree with this, though 5 points to gain Dogged on Sforza is kind of expensive so I almost always take the irregular version. Rui Shi are also BTS 6 :) Those Contenders on Bao profiles lost their point when they lost X-visor.

    I still maintain that the Hsien in Core in Yuandun was not oppressive because it was a) expected and b) had some pretty egregious inbuilt vulnerabilities to LoL and hacking with two non-KHD in the Fireteam, no tinbot, and the LT being an AHD in the main team.
     
  2. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2018
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    410
    I agree with a lot of your points, especially the amount of filler unused profiles that are just... Kinda bad. But I do have some reservations about two of the profiles you mention, regarding it's roles:

    - Bao MSV2 Bio2 BSG is a role player that does it's job reliably for cheap, you put it close to impersonators and it does plenty of work. You don't need to form a fireteam arround the guy
    - MSR MLX Pheasant with Nimbus support from Zhanying is the best way to deal with Kamau MSR if you are not fielding any links. It's certainly cheaper than getting the Hsien Haris (although I love that Haris and use it a lot)

    A point about Hsien "wildcard": a FTO profile a-la Aquilla Guard would be nice, and probably much better in ISS than its NCA counterpart. Suddenly you have a self-suficient Core team that can put smoke down, go forward pushing buttons and take shots at mid-close range from said smoke. I think getting the HMG Hsien in a cheap mixed link is a no-go for CB. Maybe a special link that needs you to pay more for the other people, like needing Cranes or something? IDK.
     
  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,929
    Likes Received:
    5,079
    I agree with all but the Zhanying. I think they are pretty good themselves. I like the the Breaker-Madtraps-Sensor a lot. Sixth Sense especially on a hacker is great.
     
    krossaks likes this.
  4. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,279
    Likes Received:
    1,935
    MR Hsien wildcard wouldn't be terribly oppressive if you wanted to go down that route, I don't think. It'd actually be a pretty fun pairing in a Crane train.

    That said, if any trooper in ISS deserves wildcard, it's the Zhanying.
     
    Space Ranger likes this.
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    Well... since we're discussing ISS in an unknown environment with unknown consequences (though I still think extremely powerful units like Hsien HMG or Tarik in cheap Cores are bad design), it would be cool if ISS had a special wildcard system where a higher ranking agent can join a fireteam of any lower "level"

    Hsien can join Cranes can join Pheasants can join Zhanying can join Celestial Guard can join mercenaries. Bao requires a Pheasant+ to form a fireteam or to join a Celestial Guard or Mercenary Fireteam.
     
    Hecaton and GuyIncognito like this.
  6. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    2,000
    Likes Received:
    3,484
    I would love to see Bao’s getting the same rework as Securitate did. Removal of all bloat, while remaining their core identity.
     
    ObviousGray, Hecaton and Space Ranger like this.
  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,929
    Likes Received:
    5,079
    I think all of the "Agents" Crane, Pheasant, Zhanying, Should be Wildcards but nothing else.

    I'd LOVE to see some new variants of the Su Jian.
     
    csjarrat likes this.
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Hsien wildcard seems fo far-fetched for me, in fact
    Hsien and Crane shouldn’t have a wildcard option but rather their special fireteam permissions revised thoroughly.

    Thought thematically a Crane and Celestial Guard unleashing 3 Kuang shis upon a criminal before even considering to get their hands dirty is very powerful and makes the ISS’s underlayer (penal regiments) share the shadows with the Agents which is incredible IMO.

    However from a gameplay Balance perspective we are looking at a second possible Kamau Link, with Hsien(Wildcard)+CG KSCD+Kuang shis.

    With this said it seems Crane wouldn’t upset balance by becoming a wildcard but it would eclipse the Pheasant _even more_ than it already is by other agents.

    I agree Bao, Pheasant and Zhanying need some love, in that order and mostly in their fireteam options.
    The Bao need some serious Profile revision and love, their link option is very restrictive and inneficient, basically you don’t want the Pheasant in this particular Fireteam, and when you do you will gravitate away from straight combat options.

    Also, what ISS really needs, is access to a second doctor (likely) and a second engineer (absolutely for sure), Sophie is incredible I wuv her so much actually I love the theme and her role, but she’s like chum in Shark Waters and 31-37 is pretty expensive, she shines in limited Insertion lists however, protecting her isn’t much of a hassle for ISS but once something does get near her you’ll immediately realize how combat Unworthy she really is, making her an extemely risky specialist for objective capturing.

    Now, a second engineer is needed, a very fun and popular theme that seems ingrained into ISS is a remote heavy list, and we have the hackers and the remotes we merely lack a more flexible engineer.

    Crane Agent needs to have their link option revised, because he’s a CC and close quarters Killing Machine, but as a gunfighter he seems a bit held back in his spitifre option in which he loses the Sensor.

    If he had a Sensor instead of an X-Visor I would be down for that so much, this would make his Job as a midfield Brawler so much more efficient and thematically Stronger, RageFist Crane doesn’t want/need to deal with your puny hiding and Camouflage.

    The Multi Rifle would not be eclipsed by this guy Since Spitfire does not have multiple Ammo Types to threat even more targets.
     
    #328 Anonymous, Sep 6, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2019
    Knauf likes this.
  9. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    2,443
    You can have another Kamau with the Hsien when he gets Mimetism, but not now
     
    Hecaton and Knauf like this.
  10. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    I agree with the first part. One should not lightly enable something like a Hsien through wildcard.

    The mixed Kuang Shi+ Crane link sounds beautiful from a thematic perspective – not sure how I'd gauge its effectiveness on the table.

    As for the Kamau comparison, the Kamau still comes out on top with a net +2 MOD compared to the HSIEN:

    BS13 + MSV2 + Mimetism
    vs
    BS14 + MSV2
     
  11. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1,848
    Likes Received:
    3,155
    Even that gorgeous Aquila Guard can link up, Why not Hsien?
     
  12. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    Only the Multi Rifle loadout (which I'd totally be down for, as far as the Hsien goes). I think it's the HMG that we need to be careful about.
     
  13. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2018
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    410
    Giving Wildcard to the Hsien seem thematically accurate. They are the top dogs of the ISS, they bow to no one! However, it might be a little too much to get the HMG into any kind of Core. A Special Fireteam Core (maybe an expensive one) might be cool though, and a FTO MULTI option like the Aquila has seems really cool as well.
     
    Ariwch likes this.
  14. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,929
    Likes Received:
    5,079
    I can see the Pheasant and Zhanying becoming wildcards, but not anything else. However, I think doing it to the Bao would help them tremendously. It's possible they could give one profile of Hsien the Wildcard ability.

    Bao jsut need some weapon options like Spitfire and Marksman Rifle, maybe Stun Grenades mainly for fluff reasons. Actually, an ADHL wouldn’t be bad either.

    I really want some new weapon optiosn for the Su-Jian. They don’t need to be super powerful either. 2 Combi Rifles, Redfury, Marksman Rifle.
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    How expensive is expensive enough?
    Wu Ming/Zhanying/Pheasant? Bao (after LSG correction/removal)? Celestial Guard?

    What if CSU got an AVA increase and were allowed Core*, so as to make room for Celestial Guard to get bumped up to about 16 or 17 points for the LT profile sharing the stats but not weapons of Xi (+1 BS, +1 ARM, Shock Immunity). That'd make the Core cost 125+ points.

    * possible restricted to require a low-level agent to lead them and for high-level agents to not be allowed to join non-agent fireteams.
     
  16. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    231
    Just for fun I would love to have a compitent melee Su Jian. By compitent I mean give it the skills and gear it needs to move into CC with out dying.

    Give it CC 23 or 25 Martial Arts L3-5. Add Mimitisim and beserk. Keep a flame thower and a twin smgs. Then throw in some nimbus plus nades.

    Would it be efficent? Probably not. But that sounds bad ass on paper to me.
     
    Henshini, Tibooper and Space Ranger like this.
  17. mittenninja

    mittenninja Invincibles NCO

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    823
    Likes Received:
    1,659
    Bao troops need attention.

    They either need an effective active turn mid-long range weapon (Red Fury, Spitfire, etc), some kind of Specialist option, and/or get their fireteam options reworked.

    The biggest issues are them being tied to a Pheasant who is the only effective active turn shooter and is also a model you want to keep out of danger (and having a 1.5swc Haris option as your only choice makes the Haris team very prohibitive. 3swc minimum for a msv2 sniper in a Haris is too much), as well as not having a specialist option beyond the pheasant.

    Changing their fireteam options to something like "may join any fireteam that contains a pheasant, crane, or Hsien agent" would open up some options while still keeping the fluff of them being needed to be supervised by superiors.

    Side note: giving pheasants some more varied fireteam options could increase their use as well.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  18. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    231
    For ISS I would like to see AVA 2 on the Chaiyi as well.
     
  19. mittenninja

    mittenninja Invincibles NCO

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    823
    Likes Received:
    1,659
    Also making Sun Tze v2 a compelling choice would be incredibly welcome.
     
  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,929
    Likes Received:
    5,079
    Yup! I want my kitty to maul some guys! I want robotic McMurough!

    Sun Tze V2 wouldn’t be bad if he didn’t have competion in his own force. Lunah has her camo and mimitisim and Marksmanship X, Pheasant has MSV1, MLX. Both at much cheaper cost. I’ve also found total immunity doesn’t do much when you only have ARM 2. They just shoot you with HMG instead of a missile. Still better than nothing I guess.

    If the’s going to be a “Marksman Leader” as his name says, he needs at least Marksman L2 but I’d say also LX. If not a boost to MSV2 then at least also a Bio-visor in addition to MSV1. The Multi-Rifle should become a Multi-Marksman Rifle with X-Visor. Now you have a “Marksman Leader”.
     
    #340 Space Ranger, Sep 6, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation