Well, ok. I'm not into this to be honest; imho the point of games is to play/see stuffs you would not accept IRL. Like playing the worst side of the Big Bag Evil faction if the game play suits you - it does not make you a Nazi or a Chinese dictator. But I know I am more focused on gameplay and rules than on fluff and lore. For people more regarding on the units' fluff, there are still ways to make lists without Kuang Shis (or Kempetai on JSA side) though, so indeed: a matter of preference.
I am on your side of the fence on this matter (I relish the fact that I can send my Kuang Shi to their inevitable death), but I can see how people who like to identify with their faction in a more direct and non-fictional sense might have a problem with that kind of stuff being the established lore.
Many people on this forum experienced a narrative shift to their faction during the Uprising. Like one morning you got to your roleplaying session and you DM tells you "I need to start shit for your next mission so I need you to stop being lawful neutral and start acting chaotic evil" just like that without real narrative justification Now, Kuang Shi as such are prisoners typically a bit further beyond redemption than your typical Green Mile inmate. Yes, "political prisoner" makes up some of them, but it's important to remember the "repeat offender" that goes in front of each and every one of them. Kuang Shi aren't your typical umbrella protester, but have had multiple chances to get in line (or they are simply serial killers without the discipline and training to become Wu Ming) My own grief with them is that they are an odd design for a brain-washed mook. I'd expect Kuang Shi to behave like Ghost: Synchronized troopers and Shaolin to behave more like Kuang Shi or Varangian Guard (i.e. Warbands that provide Regular orders)
Personally I just dislike Kuang Shi outside of their natural environment, which is the Imperial Service sectorial. They just don't make much sense to bring to a cover mission alongside a selected group of skilled operators. Regardless of that I can see that, for the game designers, they are an integral part of the faction identity (mechanics wise) and probably the reason why YuJing is relatively lacking in mines (compared with other armies) and strong ARO power. When players can bring 9 orders, 8 chain rifles and smoke in just 53 pts of list; that's a lot of chaff and potential for asimetrical exchanges threat coming from a faction that can pack some of the most powerful and efficient high tech units such as Su Jian, Hac Tao, Dao Fei, Tiger Soldier or Rui Shi. However I'm probably not alone in thinking that these lists of massed expendable mooks evocate more the image of the State army prior to the reform carried out with the planification of the Invincible Army. It's just some of us prefer the approach to a more professional and well trained army, despite this might mean not getting the full potential of the faction.
I like to imagine every pedo who gets caught in yu jing goes straight into kuang shi straight after trial.
Yes it is a moral issue for me. Some of the story behind it is a stereo type and horrific. Also their background is very much brought through into the rules. For me, playing this game IS about fantasy. If i wanted real life i'd read a newspaper or play historical. We live in a world where the Chinese are putting people in "re-education" camps this very moment, not because they are a pedo or terrorist, but because of their beliefs. I'd like to think that 250 years in the future, humanity has grown even a little bit. So, until they change Kuang Shi, I will no longer use them. (Sorry to bring this up btw) Back to Shaolin, I'd very much like to get them into CC. But I just never had great success at it. So I'd use them for what they do best, throw smoke.If CC happens, great! But i'm not going to plan my whole game around it.
Yeah the only time I'd really plan on delivering them is if a big battle tag got plonked down opposite. CC and smoke is a great counter to most of them
It's the ethics of using 'political prisoners' as suicide bombers. Yes, Kuang Shi is basically YJ's 'punishment worse than death'. That doesn't mean I like it, want to use it, or even want it in my game. Yeah, before Uprising, YJ was 'all the nations of Asia working together to be greater than the sum of the parts'. Admittedly with some leftover tensions that people were trying to work out. Now, it's more like Imperial China, with all the racism involved. "Anyone not Han Chinese is not even human." Well, KS were introduced to the game before G:Sync troopers like Pupniks, IIRC. I agree that KS would make more sense as "YJ Pupniks." Hopefully that gets fixed in N4. Assuming they even survive to get to trial.
I would assume that they would, it makes the judiciary and the emperor and by extension the ISS look good to put literally the worst criminals on trial and give them the harshest punishment.
I got the point, but what ethics? It's a game, there is no in-game ethics. It's like you'll be juged on what you play. I love KS rule wise, I am totally opposed to using "political prisoners" as suicide bombers IRL. I get the point, I don't get why people mix IG and IRL.
I've never understood why Kuang Shi are regular. A prisoner with an explosive collar doesn't really sound like a trained and effective member of a tactical team.
Did you forget they're lobotomized to become completely loyal to the State and therefore they'll follow any kind of order without hesitation?
Sure, that means they can receive orders, not that they positively contribute to the team's communication and tactical awareness, which is what I feel like Regular training means. Training: Regular This trooper received regular military training, and can be expected to follow instructions, maintain discipline under enemy fire, work in a team and coordinate with his comrades.
While I am sure the Judiciary tries, I am equally sure that any officer with kids will be sorely tempted to "save the state the cost of a trial". And also equally sure that any officer actually "saving the state the cost of a trial" doesn't face a whole lot of punishment.
I'm pretty sure anyone who isn't a bao will know that taking once such in for trial if the evidence is there is the best end. If he needs to be subdued on route several times that's to be expected.
BTW I think of the Krakot Renegades as actually being Taoist Monks! Through their studdies of immortality they have given themselves almost super natural abilities (Meta-Chemistry).
