Can you ARO or short skill BS attack with a template weapon at a model in or behind a zero visibility zone if your model was BS attacked first? You can obviously shoot back (at -6) so I assume the answer is yes... and as template weapons hit automatically you just drop the template and go with it. However, I thought I'd check because then you have a weird situation whereby the active trooper has to intuitive attack (with a roll) to hit your model with a template, whereas you could then just ARO back and hit automatically. And for a more specific example, what if your warband inside smoke speculative fires a smoke grenade just outside that touches an enemy warband. Could that enemy warband ARO with his template weapon (as the smoke grenade is a BS attack and it is "attacking" the warband)?
I do not believe in his last example it provokes an BS attack ARO. Smoke grenades are targetless. If the thrower during spec fire doesn't designate an enemy as a target then as per zero visibility zone rules they don't get to shoot back. To shoot back they've got to be the target of a BS attack specifically. "Any trooper who is the target of a BS Attack into or out of a Zero Visibility Zone, or whose LoF traverses a Zero Visibility Zone, may respond to the attacker even without LoF, provided the trooper is facing the attacker." They get an ARO still, but without LOF and not being targeted they can't fire back.
@Triumph everyone under the template is a target. The template weapon rules calls out a Main Target, but everyone affected are also targets. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Templ...mplate_example._All_targets_react_by_Shooting.
Thanks for the answers. In a similar vein, are you permitted to BS attack + Dodge (or the reverse) as a skill combination? I read the sections on skill combinations and dodge (movement) and don't see why not... Normally the shooting would be the better F2F option and dodging could only be valid in this corner case, if permitted.
BS Attack and Dodge are both short skills, you are only allowed to perform one short skill per order. You can perform two short movement skills, or a short skill and short movement skill, but not two short skills. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Structure_of_an_Order
Ahh I see... dodge is a "movement" short skill but it's not a "movement short skill!" Thanks for the clarification.
The terminology isn't great (I'd have gone with Major and Minor skills instead) but the headings of skills are colour coded Green = Short, Blue = Short Movement, and Red = Entire Order, which does help.
Dodge ONLY has movement attached to it when you are successfully using it in ARO, otherwise it does not grant movement. It's not a movement short skill, but it's a Short Skill that MAY sometimes grant movement. ;)
Yeah, the tags are a separate thing. That is what allows you to Dodge to Prone on your Reactive turn though.
Sorry one more question for you guys... what if the warband is within 8" of your trooper in zero visibility. Assuming the warband doesn't have sixth sense and my trooper does not have (or chooses not to use) stealth. You declare idle for first short skill (with the intention of shooting him second). How does the zone of control with no LOS AROs - change facing - play in? We don't *know* that he's within 8", so he needs to guess for change facing. If he chooses not to ARO (hoping that he's out of 8", for example), does he then get a second ARO when I do shoot him? I hope that makes sense.
If he doesn't have sixth sense, he doesn't get to wait to declare his ARO unless it's vs. a marker. You can Idle to trigger ARO via Zone of Control (so it would be a change facing), if he passes on that, he's passing on taking an ARO at all.
Ok, thanks for your help! So the sweet spot for those chain rifle guys to set a trap is 8-10" and an MSV2 trooper in smoke has a way out of a template if he can get within 8" (shooting at someone else for a first order and moving closer, for example).
I wouldn't put it that way, exactly. If he passes on ARO because he doesn't think he is in ZoC, then he can declare an ARO when getting shot with a template. It's just that during resolution when you measure and find out that he, if fact, was within 8" that his ARO declaration becomes invalid because he ended up passing on the first ARO opportunity that presented itself. It kind of sucks for the reactive player as a wrong guess at range will completely invalidate their ARO. Suppose they are actually outside of 8". Short Skill 1 move up to, but not crossing the edge of ZoC (unknown at the time). Reactive troop declares Change Facing (a wrong guess). Short Skill 2 is a DTW or something. They've already declared an ARO, so can't declare another one. Upon measuring, it turns out the first ARO was invalid. And as far as I can tell, the fact that they are now under a template doesn't change that since you don't Change Facing a template out of ZoC, you Dodge. ARO declarations near the border of ZoC get very convoluted.
Just remember that Intuitive Attack is an Entire Order skill, so no Idle+Shoot baiting sub-optimal AROs due to Zero Visibility Zones on that one (unless you have MSV2, but I am not aware of any Warband with MSV2).
Not all WB have smoke, I mean look at Wulvers, Pretas, one of the Jags, Penthisilea and Miyamoto. Sure, that makes for a grand total of 7 profiles out of like... 40? 50? The non-WB WB that is Wulvers is the reason why I was speculating, tbh. @kinginyellow Sure, but that Deva has a Spitfire and can't link up to get B2 on their Nanopulser the way Hsien can. :) (I couldn't find any other MSV2+ unit that could both link and had a DTW, we'll see about Devas and Charontid in the future, though somehow I doubt it on the latter.)
I believe when you get a great statline, a sack of equipment to mess with almost everything in the game and a unique toy you can use from safety (and again, threaten almost anything in the game - and hey, even benefiting from aforementioned change facing trick sometimes) and slap a price tag of grand 5 points total on that, "optimized" is not the word you are looking for :P
