1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Working toward a Ramah Tactica

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Koval, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    145
    Go for it. This was mostly motivated by a combination of feeling that there should be one and wanting to get some useful sharing of experiences and perspectives.
     
  2. LoganGarnett

    LoganGarnett Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    220
    What are your experiences with Maghariba?
    Ever since I got it, I can't help building a single battlegroup list around it. And as long as I don't try to put it on ARO duty while going second, it plays really well, being MVP both in kills and in objectives. Being able to tank non-AP+EXP AROs while moving to objectives and dismounting a pilot behind the TAG to basically ignore AROs due to its big size is priceless, in my opinion.
     
  3. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    975
    Zeydan bring the only haris hmg of ramah. And can take an specialist with them, also the breaker rifle is not half bad.

    That haris is why other troops like jenissares and al fasids don't have it.

    Ramah is designed for movement and mid range weapons, if you want that 3man r5 hmg you have the option, it's not the best hmg of the game but it's good enough.
     
    infyrana and LoganGarnett like this.
  4. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    740
    If i want an HMG i bring the Ghulam in my core link.
     
    Xeurian and LoganGarnett like this.
  5. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    73
    Yes, they bring the haris hmg, ok, but is worth enough? don't think so, because for the same points we got the kawarij haris or muktar haris. kawarij got superjump fat lvl2 and visor n2, muktar 6-2 mov mimetism with viral and visor n2 and 2 wounds. I would always prefer this two haris
    because we have a ghulam with smoke with free order.

    The only issue with these two haris is a Kamau visor n2 or similar.
     
  6. Lazarus0909

    Lazarus0909 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2017
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    194
    The other two Haris options in Ramah (Khawarijs and Mukhtars) are more offense oriented, pairing nicely with a defensive core setup. To me,k the Zhayedan Haris reverses this, so the interesting Zhayedan Haris to me is the base profile, Sniper, and then either a 2nd Sniper or Leila.

    If you're putting out 2 shots on 15s, that's actually the equivalent of many core fireteams, and allows you to have the actual core focused on a more aggressive role. Cost isn't cheap, but for 'core team equivalent ARO power', its not absolutely horrendous either.

    I wouldn't say it's exactly the 'best' combination in the game, but it's perfectly serviceable.

    Guide is nearly done - in need of a conclusion and I'll likely save some space in it for when I get to list building and overall strategy, but I'll try and upload today/tomorrow.
     
    Errhile likes this.
  7. Kraken1130

    Kraken1130 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    237
    Maggy is an S8 beauty. I'm not sure her being in Ramah adds much benefit, other than maybe a nice defensive Ghulam + Naffatun fireteam to back her up. But the opportunity cost is Saladin and Fidays to help add more orders, deny any sneaky reserve models, and assassinate nasty ARO pieces/the Lt and deny the opponent an effective counter attack.

    I've been wanting to try the 360 visor profile with the mine dispenser, knowing full well it likely isn't worth the extra 20-something points. Could be fun and add some unexpected utility.

    Do you use the standard variant or do you duo her with a bot?
     
  8. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    740
    This is like the exact opposite of what i would think. While they certainly do get up to a "core team equivalent ARO power" due to marksmanship lv2 they are way too vulnerable as ARO pieces. They are super expensive (31 points for the sniper) without added survivability in the reactive turn in comparison to a ghulam (well ARM1 vs ARM2). The haris itself costs more than a full defensive ghulam link. Also there are way more ways to counter the Haris. If you actually bring 2 sniper rifles and one of them dies (due to pie slicing for example) you instantly loose your most powerful tool: burst 2. It makes the second sniper easy prey.

    But even if we only look at one sniper the link is missing one of the most needed things of an defensive link. Sixth Sense Lv2. Without that the Zhayedan is open to easily be killed by anything that can use surprise shot. Even something cheap like a hunzakut/zero (TO trooper even more) got a good chance of dropping your 31 point defensive piece.

    I would only use zhayedans for offensive purposes. Most of the drawbacks you have in reactive are nonexistant in active turn. And they still have pretty much core-team firepower due to Marksmanship L2. The breaker+Marksmanship combo is also plain disgusting with burst 4. I would always hide that link as good as i can in reactive.

    Ramah Taskforce
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
    ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)

    1 SWC | 93 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    For ARO purposes i would prefer the humble shihab remote. It has the same weaknesses as the Zhayedan for less points with burst 4. And you can also get him marksmanship (except in the 1st turn)

    Ramah Taskforce
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]2
    SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    GHULAM Hacker (Hacking Device) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 20)

    1.5 SWC | 45 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    The ghulam link also costs nothing in comparison with nearly the same firepower (-5% hit chance against targets in cover, +10% chance against targets without cover) while being immune to surprise shot.

    Ramah Taskforce
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    GHULAM Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    GHULAM Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

    1 SWC | 68 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    oldGregg likes this.
  9. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    73
    Exactly, you have explained it perfectly. Otherwise we can take off 2 ghulams for 2 naffatum and it's pretty good for cover corners.
     
    CabalTrainee likes this.
  10. Lazarus0909

    Lazarus0909 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2017
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    194
    Oh I won't deny that I still don't think Zhayedans are 'worth it' in this role, it was more my take that IF you're determined to make use of them, I think this is one of the few niches they are "okay" at.

    I would likely advocate deploying such a unit in addition to TR bots/Flash pulse bots (not instead of - in Ramah, you're going to need a lot of AROs to make up for the lack of warbands/cheap midfield skirmishers), and while they are vulnerable to Surprise Shot (everything has a counter in this game), the whole purpose of taking them over say, a Core, is to free up the fireteam core for a more offensive oriented role.

    The point I was making is that using them in the active turn as a Core, they just have way too much competition vs. the whole slew of other core links in the faction that do the whole job so much better for the same (or less) cost. The HMG gets no MML2 bonus, the rifle is unlikely to get all that close and drag 4 other bodies with him (and even if he does, Khawarijs, Tariq, and so many other tools do this job much better with way more link flexibility at a similar cost?) and Snipers aren't going to find that many targets simply willing to stand there and line across from them.

    By comparison, the defensive Haris keeps the Core slot open for more offensive/maneuver action. Of course if you eye up the table and you think that they're too vulnerable left out standing then you change their deployment, guard a different lane, or focus more on using the Breaker and Leila in the active turn.

    YMMV of course, as with all things Infinity :)
     
  11. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    740
    What Zhayedans are okay at i think is being a haris with long range weapons. All other haris options in the sectorial stop their effectivness at the 24" rangeband. If that is really worth the huge pointcost is still questionable though.

    Any thoughts of you guys how to deal with MSV2 snipers in links with ramah? In other armies i use white noise or nimbus but i really don't like the nimbus zhayedan profile. My current go to is coordinated order with ghulam snipers. But right now i don't see any other good options and would welcome some input.
     
  12. Kraken1130

    Kraken1130 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    237
    Which MSV2 sniper? Because if it's any other sniper than the Kamau, the solution is out-dice them with a linked red fury/spitfire or bring Maggie out to play.

    If it is the Kamau, then I've experimented with Nahabs to flank and remove the cheerleaders to some success but ultimately I don't have a catch-all solution other than maybe then a fully linked Khawarij Mk12 or betting it all on Tarik to crit it to death.
     
  13. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    740
    Most of the time i think of the kamau. Because if i got a solution for that guy it works for the rest as well.

    I guess the hard part is to get into a good range. inside of 24 there is not alot in the game Ramah can't just dice away.
     
  14. Kraken1130

    Kraken1130 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    237
    The number of vectors where a Kamau can cover more than 24" from its deployment zone should be pretty scant - that's not to say crucial firelanes won't be shut down by a Kamau, but I've had decent success also just taking a Haris of Khawarij with either Fat2 Spitfire or Mk12 to minimize footprint on the board and make Cautious Moves easier across firelanes. It isn't an exact science or method, but it's been effective enough.
     
    CabalTrainee likes this.
  15. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    740
    Mukhtar haris might also be nice for this. MSV2 helps with mimetism and they already start 4 more inches in.
     
    Kraken1130 likes this.
  16. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    73
    take kawarij or Tariq with haris/core 5 dice fat lvl 2 and pray for crit.
     
  17. Kraken1130

    Kraken1130 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    237
    I have a preference for Super Jump to exploit unexpected vectors and my group tends to play with denser tables, but Mukhtar are probably more generically applicable since they're highly effective gunfighters and a bit more resilient than Khawarij.
     
  18. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    73
    @Kraken1130 you say that: my group tends to play with denser tables.

    I think ramah depends a lot about table, denser tables ramah works, but in tournaments is another history most of tables got open tables and it hurst a lot the defensive core with snipers, any sniper.
     
    emperorsaistone likes this.
  19. Kraken1130

    Kraken1130 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    237
    I've yet to encounter a problem with any core linked sniper that we don't have the tools to deal with save the Kamau. We are a faction that has reliable access to good smoke, high movement values to press the limits of Cautious Move, and plenty of BS13 pieces that can be fully linked with nasty B4+ weapons.

    Yeah we are on the lower end of ranged firepower, most of our weapons cap off at 24", but getting within 24" of most snipers isn't a problem. Most MSV2 snipers have no visual mods to be hit or can't be linked, so it's really only the Kamau we struggle with.
     
  20. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    73
    Everyone knows that kamau is op.

    otherwise the haqqislam is well known for the absence of good shooters, I mean 4 dices with mimetism is hard to find, now with muktar, yes, but only this, and before we only had kaplan spitfire. in the other hand we got a lots of shotguns is it comparable? is it better?

    Well in my expirience things like hac tao, aquiles, spetnaz, swiss, avatar that got that -6 or -3 with hmg makes the difference. but the "cheap" shotguns are ok.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation