As discussed in the Ramah thread, I started putting together a guide to Ramah. I don't plan on writing the whole thing, but I fleshed out a few sections on aspects of Ramah I have more experience with. Feel free to come up with additions or edits for any of them. Rather than just open it up to all edits, I currently have it set to allow anyone to comment. That should let people send me sections to add. If for whatever reason that doesn't work, we'll have to come up with something else. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1V_cgUaniYobGlHQgSmc28K0U5ZwNKeKpjWsi_vH6YAo/edit?usp=sharing
I think this is a good start, and hope it continues to develop! Need some positivity about RTF. I’m currently playing in a Paradiso Campaign where chars can be killed for the remainder of the campaign, so I have been very hestitant to bring out Tariq or Leila. This has led me to taking some lists with alternate options, as well as maybe trying out some of the “trash” in the sectorial. So far I can chime in that Muhktar are a fantastic unit. Every single member of the Haris is a significant threat that has to be dealt with.
Speaking of positivity, can we get someone who likes Zhayedan to add their thoughts? I personally haven't really had much success with them.
The only real advantage to Zhayaden I've seen thus far is that Veteran L1, meta dependent of course, can offer a good level of protection against E/M weapons by preventing Zhayaden from being Isolated. It's rather unfortunate that one of the most useful profiles - the standard Breaker Rifle MML2 - only has one model, but Infinity has generous enough proxy rules to get around this. Though doubtless you'll find a better use of your points and a Core/Haris slot elsewhere in Ramah (though there aren't enough Wildcard options to make ANY Zhayaden core worthwhile) I've had some success utilizing the following teams: Ramah Taskforce──────────────────────────────────────────────────3 ZHAYEDAN (Fireteam: Haris, Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 32) ZHAYEDAN Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) 1 SWC | 90 PointsOpen in Infinity Army This team has good range band coverage, and allows you to have a pseudo core team on ARO duty with the sniper and breaker rifle (being B2 and effectively BS15 in good range on your reactive turn). The doctor can help accomplish missions as needed, and keeps the team members alive. Ramah Taskforce──────────────────────────────────────────────────3 ZHAYEDAN (Fireteam: Haris, Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 32) ZHAYEDAN Missile Launcher, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30) ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) 2.5 SWC | 93 PointsOpen in Infinity Army This team is a more expensive version of a Brawler HRL + MSR rifle team with the notable addition of Nimbus. Like the above, this team can operate with the sniper effectively shooting at +3 BS and can utilize the Nimbus in the active turn to prey on exposed Fireteam members or be used to even go toe to toe with some Fireteams all together. The Nimbus can also be used in conjunction with your real core team to better engage hard targets like Kamau. Overall, though, this team is more situational and is likely best suited to Limited Insertion. Ramah Taskforce──────────────────────────────────────────────────3 ZHAYEDAN (Fireteam: Haris, Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 32) ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) 1 SWC | 83 PointsOpen in Infinity Army What I see as perhaps the most effective Zhayaden team, here you have good range band coverage, a cheap specialist, and no need to pad out the 3rd member with one of the profiles without MML2. This is better for having a small, mobile team that can also take advantage of a MML2 sniper to still be on BS12 even under 16" or cover firelanes along the flank pretty effectively. Ramah Taskforce──────────────────────────────────────────────────5 ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) ZHAYEDAN Missile Launcher, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30) ZHAYEDAN Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) 2 SWC | 139 PointsOpen in Infinity Army Lastly, this team is really just a mixture of the previous teams. Doctor and Lelia cover a good mix of missions and range bands, Nimbus + Missile Launcher is an alright ARO piece, and then you have the 2 useful profiles to do most of your active turn killing. Only real benefit to this is that, because of MML2, you don't take that big a hit to BS for shooting through the Nimbus as you'll still be shooting at B3 Breaker Rifle at BS 15 or B2 Sniper at BS15 pending range bands.
The tough part for me is just putting them in a list. Their pure haris(No Leila) is about 6/7 points cheaper than the Muhktar Haris. Zhayedan have +1 ARM and better long range options... Muhktar get so much more that I don’t see why I wouldn’t pick them.
You can kinda try the haris with Leila. Ramah Taskforce ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) ZHAYEDAN (Fireteam: Haris, Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 32) ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) 1 SWC | 83 Points Open in Infinity Army It is good on paper. You have weapons for all rangebands (mukhtar suffer over 24") and even ignore cover for nearly all ranges. But to be honest i still think they are just too expensive. Especially for how frail they are. Leila makes the link a bit cheaper and is a specialist... But well that also works in other links. Mukthar are actually cheaper (base profiles) and trade Veteran and Automedkit for NWI+Shock Immunity and Mimetism. And they can bring MSV2. That's kind of a no brainer. So the good thing that stays for the Zhayedan is the sniper rifle. Ramah Taskforce ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) MUKHTAR (Fireteam: Haris) Viral Rifle, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37) 1.5 SWC | 88 Points Open in Infinity Army
>One of our clubmates mentioned in our local Haqq VK group (lousy translation is mine): Oh look, its me!
I think I'll give that link a shot next time I'm playing. RTF still has plenty of either fast or infiltrating specialists to grab objectives. Does sound very table/terrain dependent whether it'll perform well.
Well, technicaly price for their full core is what really limiting me from using them, unless i want to go with single CG. 5 man of khawarijis with MK12 as the main spearhead packs the same amount of utility for the same price, they are fragile as well. Khawarij spitfire doesnt need 5man, he is lowkey better with just Haris, but MK12 can be paired with Leila, Ghulam Emauler, Ghulam NCO and Ghulam ML or Doc, and suddenly the contender for LI link in Ramah is almost 1/3 cheaper, while still remaining toolboxy and of quite the same fragility, which can be a decisive factor if you wanna run other expensive units. Deffo, links of Zhayedans with BR (for armoured bois), HMG (for BTS-y ones), Sniper/ML (for anti 1W/multi W aro), Doc and Leila can get the job done, but its ~140pts, so 50pts more than the mentioned MK12 with Ghulams? Thats a 1-3 spare units.
I hadn't thought about them keeping up their effectiveness as they lose members, but it makes a lot of sense, given Marksmanship. It's probably related to us being able to find good haris teams for them more easily than cores. As for the sniper not being an HMG, that's true, but burst 3 is still enough for me to want to spend orders on if the BS and damage are good.
I filled in some Zhayedan sections based on what people said. I tried to keep it positive and highlight the strengths they do have, while still mentioning that they're unpopular. Was there anything big I missed?
I can see this list working. It's got a doctor-specialist, a terrifying mid-range fighter, an Anti-Material (f- you, The Grid Antennas!). And, as a nice bonus, you get Nimbus grenades, which have a nice feature of disabling Fireteam bonuses. I'll try this team out in my single group roster along with Maggie and an agressive Core. ZHAYEDAN (Fireteam: Haris, Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 32) ZHAYEDAN Missile Launcher, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30) ZHAYEDAN Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) 2 SWC | 89 Points It can work independantly from your other pieces, throw Nimbus on top of your link or Maggie to negate your opponent ARO Fireteam bonuses, absolutely wreck faces in mid-range, give 3 regular orders for your Main Fireteam in case of LoL and much more. And if they all fall down, you can Coordinate their Automedkits in attempt to perform a clutch move! Perhaps, if this is going to work, I'll consider purchasing their Box.
What if you play the Zhayedan as a soloist? For instance, the sniper is one of four profiles in the faction and, Ghulam aside, is well priced. I like Haqq's cheaper sniper SWC (compared to multi snipers), so I'd consider an irritating sniper ARO rather than a power fireteam. The benefits of the Zhayedan is the automedkit, which isn't a perfect guarantee, but is more reasonable for an irritant; I certainly don't mind one on a yuan yuan (and I think that's the attitude to have). That's not to say 30 points is cheap, but MML2 gives a different edge than the Taureg's TO (which can be countered by MSV troops).
The idea sounds nice.. But do you really want such fragile and expensive profile to die turn 1 with no real impact, unless you link it with similar fragile profiles? I don't see Zhayedan being solo ARO pieces, to un reliable, too expensive and fragile.
I dont like the sniper as a solo ARO piece either, but what about the missile launcher? Those nimbus grenades dont combine particularly well with the Zhayedan team because they want to be supporting a higher-burst weapon. They even reduce the missile launcher's burst in a team back to down 1. But I could see some use for running it solo and using the nimbus to improve the odds of a spitfire or HMG against linked AROs.
It's not an early-phase ARO, that's for sure. But, if you've knocked out the big HMGs already, it could provide handy mid to late game objective cover. With my Qapu, I find it's helpful to think in terms of phases, with different elements working at different times. Part of this thinking is developing lateral, rather than starting with direct fire firelanes. Hence, I like those S5 HI / missilebot duos, getting a free 6" movement to get in the middle third of the table for the second or third turn. The Zhayedan is another piece to maneouver into position in the middle of the game; feels like it occupies a similar role to a suppressive firing Odalisque.
If you're going to run any solo sniper, the Hortlak has the Zhayedan beat hands down IMO. MSV 1, Mimetism, and of course 2 "wounds" makes it a much more desireable defensive piece. And yeah damn I already got through most of the work on a absolutely massive Ramah tactica before I saw this thread, c'est la vie. I'll likely publish in the forums in a few days as I'm nearly done with it, but it's pretty comprehensive. Hopefully it's useful for old and new players alike :)
