Yes, but for my sanity a broader range of Order Skills might be nice. It would also provide CB more control if desired. Movement skills should focus on actual movement. Using equipment or Discover might be better off under different umbrellas. There are actions under BS Attack that are not Attacks as another example. Lets separate the exceptions into a few new categories. I don't know if we ever discussed labels before. What does the movement label even mean? It's on Discover.
Some of Infinity’s labels are poorly defined; if you want to find rules issues you don’t have to look very hard. For example, Jammer has the “No LoF” label, but there was no supporting rules text for it, which is why there ended up being a FAQ about whether Jammers have to apply camo, visibility mods, etc. Discover has the movement label because it’s classed as a short movement skill. This is a bit of a hack to enable the discover+shoot combo. I would have preferred in N3 if discover had been made an ordinary short skill and discover+shoot had been a long skill a la intuitive attack, but they do not consult me on such matters. (Note also that you can discover A and shoot B without invoking the special maneuver rules)
It's not a bad idea for N4, but at this point in the game we only have what, 2 things that are used and unable to be reloaded (Albedo and StratusCloud)? I think it would be simpler to remove Disposable from StratusCloud and use the Albedo phrasing about not being able to re-enter the state. If CB wants to add more only-ever-used-once items to the game, then by all means they should add a new state to the game instead of adding bloat to each individual item that is one-and-done.
I think he is talking about the Movement label, not that ability being a short movement skill. The movement label is defined as "Movement. The use of this Special Skill or Equipment is a form of Movement." but aside for being clasified as a short movement skill to being combinable with short skills, Discover have nothing to do with movement (and you don't need the movement label for it to be considered a short movement skill). So it's true that label isn't well placed imo.
There are 3 types of skills: Short Movement Skills: Can be declared twice or combined with a different Short Movement Skill in the same Order. For instance, you could use an Order to Move and Discover. They can also combine with a Short Skill. Short Skills: Can only combine within the same Order with a Short Movement Skill. Cannot be declared twice or combined with other Short Skills. Entire Order Skills (or just Entire Order for short): These Skills employ one whole Order and cannot combine in any way. I think the label 'Movement' needs to be there, because Discover is a Short Movement Skill. And I think Discover is a Short Movement Skill because CB wants it to be possible to be combined with other Short Movement Skills or Short Skills (like Attack) during a single Order.
These are 2 different things. The different types of skills are just a clasification to allow or forbid some skills combinations like Move+BS attack or BS attack + BS attack. The "short movement skill" category could had been called "short simple skills" Labels identify and links these skills with other rules, the movement label say this: Discover doesn't allow the model to move in any way, so that label is not well placed there.
Well the rules are funny here: Movement is a form of Movement. I think it should read: The use of this Special Skill or Equipment follows the General Movement Rules. Movement does not mean that you change your place on the table, but your position (like prone) or facing. And that's the interesting point: So you have 360° while using discover and you can change your facing after it! So maybe this is the reason for using that labal in that context?
It seems like the Movement trait was meant to influence things like Stealth and Immobilized without having to type out e.g. "Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement" every time, but is is not used as such. Instead all I can find that it does is give the trooper 360 vision when the skill is declared. (Small note of caution, you can't declare Discover ARO all willy nilly, you still need that LOF to gain the ARO in the first place)
To add to what @Ogid has said, Stratuscloud and other short movement skills do not have the "Moveemnt" label. So those two are not connected. I wondered the same thing as well. It would make sense that the label would have rules attached to it. But I can't find any rules. The only thing the label links to is a list of things regarding general movement. I highly doubt everything on that list is allowed. I also doubt only a select few things like 360 vision is allowed. Because I see nothing to indicate which ones are allowed and which ones are not. We can't arbitrarily decide which bullets count and which do not. Where is that stated? Let me clarify, where does it state that is allowed for skills containing the movement label.
I don't find anywhere the skill gives you 360º vision when used, in fact the general movement rules say you have 360º vision while moving (and you don't move while discovering) and all the discover examples say the trooper needs LoF in active and in reactive (plus LoF is a requisite). Is there any thread where this is discussed and ruled? That might have sense; but if that was the idea a different label would had fitted it more if Discover was intended to be included there.
Well, it has the Movement label, so it seems that you do. You just don't move in a way to change your position on the table, but you (can) change your facing, for which you have to move your mini...
This is true, but discover doesn't tell you to move, or go prone or change facing... That label in "Change Facing" has sense; but what's movement happens in the discover skill?
No, I see it the other way round: Discover has the Movement label. The Movement label tells you that you have to follow the General Movement Rules. The General Movement Rules say you have 360° vision while using a Movement skill and allow you to change facing after the skill usage. Well, it might not be a big movement, but during Discover you are taking a look around: 360° - and without breaking your neck - so you (are allowed to) turn around your own axis once. Edit (to elaborate): Yeah, the wording could be way more precise, but just take a look - when the General Movement Rules say "Move", its the skill, when it's "Movement", it is any skill with that label. What is not so clear is the usage of "Moving" and "moving", though. But I ascribe it to the label, because that includes Move as well.
I'm still not sold with that reading, having LoF with the target is a requisite of Discover so you don't gain 360 vision to use it (and gaining it after you have selected the target wouldn't be very useful XD) Also the general rules say you get 360º vision while moving, not while using an ability with the movement label. For example, if a model is attacked with a template for his back arc and he chooses to dodge (ability with the movement label), he will have to apply a -3 for not having vision with the attacker.
Well, if you discover first then BS attack second, you could discover something in front of you, then shoot something behind you if you believe you are allowed 360 vision when declaring Discover...
From LoF: For the entirety of its Order, a troop that declared a Movement can draw a 360˚ LoF. From the Skill Labels: Movement. The use of this Skill is a form of Movement. So declaring Discover will let you turn. But it’s not the Move Short Movement Skill so you’re not going to be able to change Prone status. However... the Requirement for Discover is: The user must be able to draw LoF to the target. So the target would need to already be in your LoF in order to be able to declare the Skill. It would still be handy to turn for other things, for example to shoot at a model that’s behind you, or repositioning for Suppressive Fire in a later Order.
Ty for the clarification... I didn't know you could turn after a discover or use it to gain 360 vision for the turn, that will come in handy.
