Dealing with Achilles (mostly HB)

From my perspective: don't expect to effectively stop Achilles with just one ARO. This does happen time to time, but not often enough to build on it.

Also, remeber that Stealth is effective only if nobody is Attacked in a given Order. So, as soon as Achilles shoots at someone, every model who had him in his ZoC during that Order will be eintitled to ARO despite lack of LoS.

Ghazi Muttawi'ah are the most obvious counter, but I had very good effects with Assault Hackers too (especially in QK, where Ghazi are not available). Effectively, deal with Achilles like you'd deal with a TAG.
Also: Jammer is, IMO, good for out-of-LoS ARO only. In almost every other situation, sacrifice your Ghazi and lay a template with your E/Marat (if facing REM, HI or TAG) or Chainrifle (vs LI/MI/WB/SK). Occasionally you might want to hope for keeping Ghazi alive and force a FtF using your pistol.
If the range isn't good for template (or you have your eyes on a juicier target), then Smoke Dodge, or just Dodge (if you're afraid your smoke would block LoS of your other models).

 

I'am really agree with this phrase. At least with the "long range ARO pieces". Only a few factions (Vainilla Tohaa, Spiral, because Burst+1, Symbioarmour and "frogs" (symbiomates) and Varuna because MVL2 + Mimetims... perhaps too SSO and Onyx) can do really well playing to ARO.

Templates are of course good, but against Achilles and troups with similar stats maybe they will be not the best choice, because this:

Active Player
11.25% Ghazi Muttawi'ah inflicts 1 or more wounds on Achilles (2 W)
Failures
13.75% Neither player succeeds
Reactive Player
75.00% Achilles Dodges Ghazi Muttawi'ah

We managed to do one wound to Achilles, aprox 1 from 10 times. If we tried with E/Marat the chances aren't too much better.

Active Player
12.50% Ghazi Muttawi'ah hits Achilles (Disabled)
Failures
12.50% Neither player succeeds
Reactive Player
75.00% Achilles Dodges Ghazi Muttawi'ah

If we do use of Jammer, the chances to Isolate Achilles are a little better. (I did custom unit because I fand not the "jammer", I customed phisycs same as VOL choosing "dodge" instead reset)

Active Player
17.26% Custom Unit inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)

Failures
34.24% Neither player succeeds
Reactive Player
48.50% Custom Unit Dodges Custom Unit

This calculations made me say "using templates could be not the best choice", less chanches to harm the target while expose our troup. And this too why I sai better use Gazi as "ARO" pieces.

Still, If we go until face Achilles (or other target) them the real power of our "friendly impetous" is that he can choose the best weapon after the enemy choose his ARO. If he do reset we use Emarat (against Achilles with 2 or 3 wounds) or Chain if only one wound left, if the ARO is Dodge, theem we will choose "jammer". When this happends our chanches to "harm" our target increases a lot, as you can see.

(Chain vs Reset, probably the best options will be E/marat at first).
Active Player
45.00% Ghazi Muttawi'ah inflicts 1 or more wounds on Achilles (2 W)

Failures
55.00% No success
Reactive Player
75.00% Achilles Resets vs. Ghazi Muttawi'ah

Failures
25.00% No success

 

See, @Urobros - there's a big difference between going after Achilles with a Chainrifle, and with going after him with E/Marat (or another EM weapon).

If you use the ChainRifle, should you succeed, well, Achilles has 3 Wounds (and 4 to 6 ARM, depending on version): he can take a hit. Won't slow him down.

If you use the E/Marat, and should you succeed, we have what in the armed forces is called a mobility kill. I.e. the target is not really destroyed, but it is no longer a factor in a given combat, especially if we are thinking in terms of mobile warfare: a sitting duck, easy to take advantage of.
Kind of like a tank with its track blown off.

Sure, having the target blown to pieces is usually the better result, but having a mobility kill has its advantages, too:

1. It is no longer a threat (untill specialized assets - here, an Engineer - get to the scene and repair it). You can conveniently finish it off later
2. Your opponent has now to either forlorn this model, or risk assets (Engineer) and effort (Orders) t try and save it.
3. In most cases, having an expensive model kept in such a vulnerable state is detrimental to your opponent's morale.

...not to mention, a mobility kill on a hard target like Achilles or a TAG is usually way easier to achieve than a real kill.

Also, keep in mind #2 above. Enemy Engineers (and Doctors) are prime targets for assassination. If you can, early in game, make sure what goes down, stays down, it is defintiely worth it. A great opportunity for your Fiday, especially given these Engineers are usually tucked away somewhere, not necessarily well-guarded, and usually not really tough opponents...

 

@Cannon Fodder @Errhile Yes, I'am totally agree with you in this question, it was what I'am triying to say. I see I poorly explained myself. Sorry. Nobody argues in this case:it is a lot better "disable" achilles instead "try" to kill him. At least with the tools we have in Hassasin barahm.

The point, what I tried to say before, was exactly that. Only I'am not agree with try too actively hunt Achilles with the "E/Marat" (or Jammers). If we have the chance to do it, of course, do it, but don't make you mad about this trying. "Jammers" in position will make Achilles avoid some places, or try to do "cautious" movements, which, in the end, will make his order pool less eficient.

Of course, if we have the chance to face Achilles with our Ghazis, them we will do, in order to force the rival choose between Reset or Dodge as ARO, choosing we the "non Reset or non Dodge weapon", this is the true strength of Ghazis and why the can do "checkmate" over really expensive troups.


Sorry guys if I didn't wrote my ideas well in previous posts. Som

 

I would be careful using morale damage against your opponent. Cause too much over too many games and you may end up with a total "victory".

 

yep, that's what I meant too. If given the chance on my active, I would just throw the Ghazi right into LOS and template range of the big bad dude, which typically forces them to dodge since statistically that is the better response. That's when you roll the dice on the jammer. and pray that it goes through. This is opposed to moving the Ghazi to a location where she can only jam out of LOS instead and then you are just throwing orders to do short order jamming.