Fair cop. Though their advanced mobility, borderline obscene durability for the cost, and easy MSV2+smoke access, means that in practice is a lot less of an issue than it seems. Especially if you yourself haven't taken an MSV2 Sniper.
I voted no, but truth is the issue I have is more with cheap fireteam + expensive whatever than sniper MSV2 specifically. I don't mind the kamau sniper in a full kamau team, or an haidao with zuyongs, but going with fusilliers/zhanshi is ridiculous and seriously devalue the more expensive fireteams. Same thing for units like Brigada, shang-jìs or ORCs, it just feels like a lazy fix.
Might be nice if a few cheap guys were mixed into a pricey link, like MRRF Metro/Moblot combo except good, instead of the other way around. Would make it at least a bit less gross while still letting the heavies and optimised ARO guys shine.
The problem I see you take four cheerleader link them with a good aro unit. Now you got five orders and good aro presence for little cost. If its an aggressive team four cheap units and an expensive hmg or multi rifle it at least means you have to use them right but as an aro link you just put them in a good spot and most of the time that should be enough.
MSV2 without Smoke was considered overpriced, although marginally. It still is on some units. But that doesn't matter if you get it for cheap, or on an ARO unit that you are willing to sacrifice. There were always units where MSV2 was always perfectly fine (ex: Rui Shi, Nisse) and others where MSV2 meant overpricing (ex: Bao and Yaogat non-SWC weaponry). However, MSV2 was never super-overpriced. Kamau is already a great unit by itself, and when you add the bonuses that come from dirt cheap fireteam it changes everything. Also, I just realised that Agema MULTI Sniper is mere 2 points cheaper than Kamau MULTI Sniper...
I have an issue with Haidao or Kamau and 4x Zanshi/Fusiliers. MSV2 sniper with 4x cheap orders, Haidao link is as cheap as 81pts and Kamau link is as cheap as 72pts. It's bordering on being a better KSCD+Kuang Shi link!
The OP question makes it too easy. Should Linked MSV2 Snipers exist? Sure, with proper restrictions to get access they make for an interesting part of the game. Should Kamau get Core boni from Fusiliers? Probably not. Speaking as a PanO player, it doesn't break the game either way, but it is a meta shift that's hard to like.
The other thing I think is really funny is that they made it so the Black Friar sniper can't join fireteams - apparently only Varuna is allowed to have that in PanO.
I'm going to second the Mimetism comment. Just in terms of gunfighting, Mimetism makes that so much harder of a target. Even the two wounds of the Haidao feel less bullshitty to me. I'm not bothered by the Brawler or Taagma snipers at all. With regards to the suicide command token play, I'm bothered by it in missions where you're scored for keeping points alive on the table in tiers, such as Biotechvore or Annihilation. Depending on the units used, that can make it nearly impossible to score full points. I guess the underlying issue is the Kamau links do so much for such a marginal cost.
I don't think the slight increase in linkable MSV2 snipers or MSV2 core-able units in general is a problem, but I do think that Wildcard (or to that effect) MSV2 models can be an issue, particularly when they can combine with smoke-capable cores or very cheap core, but it depends on the layout of the army and the particular model in question and that there are units that tread unnecessarily close close to the line when it is far too much. As an example; I do not think that Brawler Sniper is much of an issue, even if it is essentially a reverse Wildcard for Dahshat (as in, the dirt cheap unit are wildcards while the Brawler is not). It's a potent, sometimes very difficult, obstacle, but your opponent will have tools to deal with it favourably without building specifically for it during their active turn. This is not a disadvantage that they have. They have fewer than NCA, but more than Bakunin, Spiral, Tunguska, IA... Average comes to mind and the points and SWC distribution as well as unit distribution is very, excessively, even.
The only remotely problematic one of the units in question is Kamau, because bruteforcing into him with a simple HMG may not be effective due to mimetism - and also because Varuna has best ARO in the game in form of Helots on top of it. Brawler, Haidao and Taagma just die in 1-2 orders from a high burst gun or a drop trooper freeing up warbands and skirmishers. Also maybe the prominence of MSV2 snipers will make people remember about White Noise program finally.
Remember that a 4+ members Fireteam grants SSL2, so you lose that precious BS -6... It goes on pure dice. Anyway, if you can kill the runts, go for them. If you can close in, go for it. If you can coordinate against him, go for it. It's not that there are no free-for-all counters to those tactics...
Yeah, my Nomads really like this. But not every faction has access to HD+. And it is just good to move up, but not to attack.
It lets you: 1) Get with a Spitfire (linked Hollow Man for example) into 0 range of the sniper where odds will be better or just into your optimal position if your HMG is outranged 2) Freely move around pushing buttons 3) BIG BRAIN PLAYS: coordinate order any CrazyKoala unit and Kriza to trigger ARO outside of noise zone and throw 3 dice on normals into MSV2 unit
About the topic: What is a strong MSV2 sniper model? 1.) The strong defense: I do not care to mucha bout the Kamau's BS 13 vs the Brawlers BS 12, but the Kamau's Mimitism makes him what I call 'strong'. 2.) The cheap price: The Kamau Link costs 72 points. The Brawler in Dashatstarts at 76 points. In Spiral the cheapest is 96 points (and a wast with 3 cheap Taagmas in it). 3.) Availability of smoke The Kamau lacks this. So, what are the (combination of) factors that make a MSV2 sniper 'strong' in your optinion?
You can get some cheaper options: 1 Taagma Tricore + 1 Taagma MSV2 Sniper = 46points now you can add Kaeltar for 15 points for a total of 61 points or another taagma for a total of 62 points etc wait you meants fireteam core only? In spiral thats 4 brawlers and 1 anaconda for a total of 138 points
Sure, I forgot about TriCore! But the Anaconda can only form a Duo with a (single) Brawler, not be part of a Core, even if that would give the Anaconda a chance to shine!
What were you counting? And yeah misread that, so wait besides tri core there is not fireteam core in spiral corps? EDIT: ijw clarified for me, didn't know taagma counted as brawlers. So the whole confusion was my fault.
