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ZoC

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Ginrei, Jun 26, 2019.

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  1. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    After reading the ZoC rules several times, I have to ask where those 8" lines would be drawn in its diagram.

    The rules describe ZoC to be an area 8"... as measured vertically or horizontally. That seems to indicate the total width or height to be 8". Extending from the border of its base would be like having a circle around the troopers base and expanding it until the diameter is 8". It's essentially the same process for the height.

    upload_2019-6-26_1-7-12.png

    The alternative theory being:

    upload_2019-6-26_1-7-27.png

    The Zone of Control is projected upwards and downwards in a cylinder 8 inches high. I read this as one cylinder with a total height of 8". The alternative seems to be to read it as one 8" cylinder going upwards and one 8" cylinder going downwards.

    Another point is that the diagram itself doesn't reflect a total diameter of 16". It looks closer to 8". A troopers base is 1" in width. Using the scale from the example appears to be 9". Allowing for a margin of error this still puts the diagram well in support of the 8" width in total.

    upload_2019-6-26_1-19-44.png

    The wording for ZoC is extremely unclear to me. Adding the axes to the diagram and showing the measurement precisely would be fantastic.
     
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  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    1. That diagram is not to scale, it's illustrative. Your third diagram clearly shows this.
    2. It's measured 8" vertically from the edge of the base both up and down (so 16"+~3mm) and 8" out from th edge of the base so for S1/2 that's 16"+25mm, for S3/S5 is 16"+40mm etc

    This is the only definition that meets this wording:
    "A trooper's Zone of Control is an area 8 inchesextending from the border of its base, as measured vertically or horizontally."

    The second sentence is an additional explanation of the first. It's is poorly worded but it describes an 8" cylinder above the edges of a base and an 8" cylinder below the edges of the base.

    "The Zone of Control is projected upwards and downwards in a cylinder 8 inches high."

    This reading of the second sentence is congruent with the first, any other reading is not.
     
  3. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    The other diagrams in the game are pretty good.

    (Edit, actually, if the 8" width doesn't count the silhouette, 9 troopers is exactly the right number.)
    If it's the only definition as you claim and any other reading is not valid... how is it poorly worded?
     
    #3 Ginrei, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  4. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    sod off ginrei you troll.

    Seriously

    @Koni Can we lock this crap?
     
  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I say it's worded badly because read in isolation from the first sentence it is possible to read it as a cylinder exactly 8" in total. I am of the opinion that rules need to be written to account for people who persist in reading sentences in isolation and ignoring their context (mainly to account for exactly this sort of issue).

    In context it's clear that it means a cylinder that extends out 8" from the edge of the base in all directions.

    Context is important.

    If you're seriously arguing the the picture is to scale you will need to prove that the total height of the diagram is exactly 8". I'll wait.

    I get that there are some things that are confusing, this is not one of those things. Trying to argue that it is just creates confusion where there is none.
     
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  6. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    A trooper's Zone of Control is an area 8 inches extending from the border of its base, as measured vertically or horizontally.

    Total diameter of the cylinder is 16 inches + diameter of base.
    Total height of the cylinder is 16 inches + 3mm (standardized base height).

    You could contest that the expansion of "base contact" to mean "silhouette contact" means that the height should be measured from the top of the silhouette, rather than the top of the base. This also improves the symmetry of ZoC violations for models that are about 8" separated vertically. However, this is very rare in an actual playable Infinity table, so it's mostly a moot point.
     
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  7. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Yep, this one seems clear, but it's true that the wording in the second sentence could be missleading if read isolated.

    A trooper's Zone of Control is an area 8 inches extending from the border of its base, as measured vertically or horizontally. The Zone of Control is projected upwards and downwards in a cylinder 8 inches high (from the trooper base).
     
  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Polite request - please start by quoting the rules text instead of paraphrasing it.

    "an area 8"... as measured vertically or horizontally" is not what the rule says, and changes the meaning of the rule. As the other posters have quoted, it's actually "an area 8 inches extending from the border of its base". Not an 8 inch area.
     
  9. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    It extend 8 each from the border of the base.

    Border : noun, the part or edge of a surface or area that forms its outer boundary.

    All the border of the base, not only the part you pick up. In every direction (right, left, bottom, top...).

    The bottom of the base is a border => it extend 8 inches each in every direction from there
    The top of the base is a border => it extends 8 inches each in every direction from there
    Every piece of your base is basically a border => it extend of 8 each from there

    So ZoC is a cylinder, roughly 40 cm high and 42.5 cm large, centered on your base.

    RAW are clear, RAI are clear, the picture is figurative and clear also
     
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