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The Heavy Infantry Problem

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Weathercock, Jun 15, 2019.

  1. Sedral

    Sedral Jīnshān Task Force Officier

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    Assault hacking devices don't have the aircraft hack programm though.

    edit:

    Repeater and hacker entranched inside buildings where it's impossible to engage them without going inside their repeater area is a thing on some tables.

    As for it being an issue or not, it mostly depends of the mission and the tools your opponent has at it's disposal to extend his hacking area. Any army with pitchers can easily deploy repeaters on/near objectives or convenient shooting points to make your life a living hell.

    Anyway, we're entering "impossible to theorize, too many parameters" territory here, and also going further and further off topic.
     
    #201 Sedral, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  2. Proletarian

    Proletarian Well-Known Member

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    I was talking in context of the complaint that linked hackers negates the zencha's stealth. How often are there linked assault hackers? If it's not linked go hunt it down with your stealth HI infiltrator?
     
  3. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    The Hai Dao (from what I've seen) is often embedded in the link which if run is the primary focus so it clearing the way for itself and by extension the rest of the team is fine. The Hac Tao is order inefficient especially when compared to stuff like Dart and TOFOOS, but it is still an option available.

    Also you can just run a flashpulse bot near it or some other repeater(providing IA has access to dep.rep.s) and blackout the enemy repeater.

    it basically comes down to the following;
    1. You have the (somewhat average) options to deal with these things and it's up to you whether or not you choose to employ them.
    2. because of the above, it's nowhere near as bad as most seem to think it is.
     
  4. Sedral

    Sedral Jīnshān Task Force Officier

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    Not always as easy as it sounds. The AHD might very well be TO, or camo (which means you have to discover first) or deeply entranched in your opponent's DZ , surrounded by mines, with repeaters to extend it's hacking area.
    But yes, this is kinda what I'm contemplating in my lists at the moment: just gonna kamikaze my zhencha, and if it doesn't work I'll just have to rely on good 'ol fairy dust. Not that I like it, but considering I'm running krit at least its easier to repair things if they gets isolated midfield.

    Yeah when I say "for himself" I included his fireteam. But again, if what you're trying to cram in your opponent's throat isn't a zuyong/shang-jì team, but say, a mowang or a hulang, he won't be very helpful.


    Tried that a few times. Bot eats an oblivion, repeater disconnected, I've juste wasted a bunch of orders. The Lu-duan can do it safely though, just needs to be wary if your opponent also has access to infiltrated TO KHD.

    It basically comes down to the following:
    1) you have options to deal with these threats, but they're either expensive or very order intensive, often both.
    2) because of the above, list building can be very constraining, and therefore frustrating.
     
  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    I've been following the thread for the last few pages and it really seems like you are playing against relatively very skilled opponents. That's a nice problem to have :)
     
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  6. Tongfa

    Tongfa ULTRA INSTINCT UKR

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    It's obviously outside of Ariadna's bag of tricks, but I've dreamed of having a TO AHD paired up with a strong ARO piece force a catch-22 ARO of Reset/shoot/unopposed dodge on a HI/Tag.
     
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I don't think so. AD has a strange order declaration/aro sequence. I am hesitant to say that a hacker who declines to use Hack Transport Aircraft can't shoot or dodge vs. drop troop.
     
  8. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    You might be, You'd be wrong as has been clearly discussed numerous times. Just because you ignore it, doesnt make you correct
     
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  9. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    that can be a risky play, TAGs can often risk at least ignoring one of those AROs for a single order (likely the hacker in order to kill the BS Attack piece) before clearing off whatever you've pinned em down with. Not saying its bad mind, its absolutely a good play, just not as guaranteed as you my like for the effort
     
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  10. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    And with half the hackers we're talking about, that means you're dropping that LX in the middle of a link team.



    That is certainly the issue I am running into.

    The tools I consider necessary to deal with any ITS scenario are sufficiently expensive in IA that you may have to leave one or more behind.
     
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  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It's not in the rules. AD allows troopers to declare AROs at a weird time, outside of the normal ARO declaration sequence; I don't see anything in HTA that stops people from doing this. The section about troops losing their AROs is in the context of troops attempting to delay their chance for an ARO until a second skill is declared; it doesn't account for the weirdness of AD.

    Until CB puts it in the FAQ I wouldn't play that way, since it creates such a degenerate interaction.
     
    #211 Hecaton, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  12. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Others have already pointed out how that's wrong and the Dao Fei and Tiger Soldier have very clearly been listed as Invincibles.

    Also you need to try to apply your usual mental gymnastics to this white face plate.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. SpectralOwl

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    As I said, I'm aware of the other ways to play IA. They're just a good bit better in other factions which have all the support and defense goodness; my go-to all-comers list is actually a 13-14 order REM and Hacking-heavy Bakunin with a Taskmaster for defensive duty. You may have misconstrued my comment about REMs in that I happen to think SatLock bots in general are the bee's knees, especially in comparison to Zhanshi. I tend to find lately in actual play I prefer using HI as support weapons or second-line defense, with REMs surpassing them on attack due to the equal hits until they're dead and easier support with onboard Repeaters and Engineers doing everything needed to keep them running.

    These days I'm actually getting into NCA due to the better support and mid to low cost options while maintaining the capability to have a HI be a hero and save the day by themselves. It's important to find a faction that can do what your playstyle and sense of fun can gel with, and IA just didn't work for me. That said, I did play around with it for a bit, and found that the Shang Ji AHD is actually worth his immense cost despite every argument saying otherwise, so maybe there's hope we're just barking up the wrong tree with this.

    Except the ORC AHD. Every problem raised here is completely true about that incompent monkey and their mobile armoured typewriter. Even the ones that contradict each other.
     
  14. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    Welcome to IA tactica thread. :(
     
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  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Immaterial.

    Hack Transport Aircraft has very obvious timing as to when it can be declared, and the rules are also very clear that if you don't declare your ARO when you first have a chance to do so, you lose ANY ARO (barring weird shit with Sixth Sense changing the rules).

    Ergo, a hacker capable of declaring HTA must either declare HTA or lose any chance to ARO to the airdropping trooper, unless said hacker also has Sixth Sense and can declare 'Delay ARO'. (and that hacker would still not be able to declare HTA since timing to declare that has passed)


    I look forward to your next ITS where everyone plays it that way.
     
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  16. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    Only for some. That was the original point of the thread before it descended into IA madness
     
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  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It also only allows for more AROs to be declared if a second Short Skill allows for more, which AD is a massive exception to. This is like that Stealth and multiple troopers moving in a hacking area issue; the rules aren't really clear.
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    How you deal with all kinds of stealth hackable opponent can be summed up as; have a hacker with Sixth Sense, have a hacking area, have the Sixth Sense Hacker challenge the stealth opponent and force it to commit to an action that either grants you normal rolls on Gotcha/Blackout/Overlord or force it to Reset/Carbonite/Redrum. If they do the latter, your non-Sixth Sense hackers can pile on more hacks.
    This is not unique versus Zhencha, but is applicable to Hospitallers and Samurai equally.

    As for handling Liu Xing, if your opponents leaves their hackers with clear sky and no overlapping support, then exploit the hell out of it. Sooner or later they will learn how to deal with it and it'll get harder for you to exploit the situation. Also keep in mind that HTA is the stronger option for most Line Infantry hackers, particularly if they bring more than one.
     
  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    granted, so posted a question in the Rules subforum.
     
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I would think that Engage would be.
     
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