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Perimeter weapons and final coherency check

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by bona, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. bona

    bona Well-Known Member

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    I have a question about the final coherency check related to placing perimeter weapons into standby. If your perimeter weapons start in coherency, can you move the unit and the perimeter weapons in opposite directions such that they are now out of coherency, then in the second order put them in standby? It seems that the final coherency check isn’t performed until the conclusion of the order so the weapons will be in standby and being out of coherency is irrelevant. Is this the correct reading?


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  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yup.

    The Items enter Standby during Effects and you perform the Coherency check at Conclusion.

    It's the same reason that you can slingshot a Team Leader outside Coherency and get Fireteam bonuses.
     
  3. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what @inane.imp said.

    This line should be removed from the perimeter rules btw
    It is confusing and absolutely false, you can move your perimeter weapons however you like.
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    No, they do need to maintain coherency. If you fail to maintain coherency with a Perimeter item that isn't in Standby it goes disconnected.

    The point is that the Standby is resolved before Coherency is failed.
     
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  5. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    As long as they end the order within coherency, they don't get disconnected. That line is saying is "each time you move your perimetral, it cannot leave your coherency range, under any circunstance", mind the "when moving,..." part; if that would be true, then you couldn't use the move (perimetral out of coherency) + Stand-by. We know perimetrals doesn't work like that, so that line is only littering that rules.
    That is covered without that line:
     
  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I take your point, you can remove that statement without affecting anything. We're largely talking past each other. I was pointing out that describing it as 'absolutely false' is overstating things: your interpretation of the 'must maintain coherency' doesn't match the timing of coherency. Coherency is only measured at 2 points, it's irrelevant outside of those two points you 'maintain' coherency by being within coherency when it's measured at the start and end of the order.
     
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  7. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Yep, and that's exactly why I was saying that line is not helping at all.

    As you pointed, Coherency is checked at the start and end of an order; but that line is saying that you must (and must is a very strong verb for a rule) keep coherency while moving, but in reality you never check coherency while moving.
    So it is not only absolutely false, but also missleading.
     
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  8. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    You're overlooking the other possible sequences:
    1. Declare move
    2. Declare Dodge or BS Attack, or some objective related action
    3. Discover that the perimeter weapon is out of coherency
    and the end result is the perimeter item becoming disconnected.

    And I think really you're mistaking "must remain in coherency" for "is actively unable to leave coherency" rather than a statement like "must pay taxes" (If you don't pay taxes, there will be negative consequences).

    If you can't premeasure, then statements that involve distances that say "must" reasonably have to have either consequences or statements about what to do when you fail. That's what Perimeter Items does.
     
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  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    This is what I was getting at. You just wrote it better than I was bothered doing. :)
     
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  10. bona

    bona Well-Known Member

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    Thanks


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  11. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Guys, I know how this works, I'm just saying that it's not well worded

    An IRL example won't work here, the rules are the "physics" of a game and "must remain in coherency" mean just what you said.
    2 examples:
    According with that loose definition of "must", I could declare move and walk towards a nearby roof or attack a target without LoF.
    This "must" is not acting like it should, and that's bad for the consistency of the rulebook. Why do you think @bona opened this thread? Because he/she saw there was something out of place in the perimetral rules.


    And that's my point; if the rules cannot force that "must" because you are not allowed to measure at that point, then what's the point of that statement?

    This is one of the things that get me on my nerves (figurately, I'm not breaking stuff right now XD), Do you guys want better rules in the next edition? Then don't defend sloppy wording.
     
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  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I agree it's sloppy and can be removed. It's not absolutely false though. [emoji14]
     
  13. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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