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Wildcards (not) replacing all Fireteam core Troopes

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Hachiman Taro, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Yes, I would be all in favor of it getting a "real" rule.
     
  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    A Wildcard can replace one model of a Duo, as long as there is one model between the two with the Duo rule. Haidao does not have Duo, but Shang Ji does. But you should be able to pair a Haidao with a Yan Huo, because the YH has duo.
     
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  3. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    The previously mentioned 2x FK + 3x Santiago (or 2 Santiago and a Black Friar) doesn't seem legal from my point of view, as the wording is similar to that of Rui Shi and no trooper "counts as " Order Sergeant.

    This however
    Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    LUPE BALBOA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23)
    DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    VALERYA GROMOZ Hacker (Hacking Device UPGRADE: Expel) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 34)
    TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 34)

    2.5 SWC | 126 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Is a legal "Up to 3 Alguaciles and up to 2 Brigada" as Valerya fulfills the Alguaciles requirement while Tsyklons fulfil the Brigada requirement.
    Is that correct?

    Wildcard on non-AVA 1 troops was a mistake IMO.
     
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  4. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    I believe that's legal. You'd actually only need to fulfill one or the other, the Alguaciles or Brigada, both are not necessary.

    The real question is, are you going to call it a Mobile Brigarda Core Fireteam, or an Alguaciles Core Fireteam?
     
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Answer: It doesn't matter what you call it as long as it's not confusing your opponent by calling it something it's not, and technically both of your given alternatives are wrong. It's a Special Fireteam Core, not an Alguacile one nor a Brigada one, neither troop type joins the other.
     
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  6. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    I am going to call it a "Fireteam Core: Special: Up to 3 Alguaciles and up to 2 Brigada". It's a pretty rigid composition that is neither an Alguaciles Core nor a Brigada Core (though for ease of communication most people would call it an Alguacile Core because they have the majority).
    The answer would be the same if it was entirely kosher like this:
    Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    MOBILE BRIGADA MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    MOBILE BRIGADA MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)

    0 SWC | 108 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Is this an Alguacile Core or a Brigada Core? It's neither.
     
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  7. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    It's common, and wrong, to refer to a Fireteam by the name of the unit making them up. How many of us do this? The Xeodron Haris, Unidron Core, whatever.

    I'm merely drawing attention to the fact this Special Fireteam has no true identity. So while you may find error with the potential names I chose, you've focused on the wrong point.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, but in Dahshat there definitely is such a thing as a Zuyong Fireteam while in ISS Cranes no longer join a Celestial Guard Fireteam, but they used to (now it's simply a Special Fireteam consisting of Cranes and Celestial Guard).
     
  9. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
    Warcor

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    I'm so confused how it work with PAtsy ?
    I have a tournament next week is this still valid ?
    Varuna Immediate Reaction Division
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    KAMAU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28)

    1 SWC | 82 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Patsy is nothing and the two other are wildcard ???
     
  10. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Should still be legal, because there is a Kamau in the team, Patsy has Haris, and the VIRD Machinist can join a Kamau Core or Haris.
     
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  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that's a legal Kamau Haris. It's not a legal Orc Haris.
     
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  12. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    But Patsy is the one with and forming the Haris, not the Kamau, so it’s an ORC Haris that the Kamau is joining. The Machinist can only join a Kamau Haris, not an ORC one.
     
  13. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
    Warcor

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    Patsy is not an ORC there is no ORC haris, this is so frinking bugged
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Who says the trooper with Fireteam: Haris defines what the Haris is? Having the Kamau in it is enough to make it a Kamau haris.
     
  15. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    I'm so confused.
     
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  16. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Show me where it says Patsy is an ORC for Fireteam purposes.

    Patsy is not an ORC for fireteam purposes. She is a Wildcard, and is replacing the Kamau combi in a Haris link. It remains a legal Haris because Patsy has Haris. It is not an ORC Haris because Patsy is not an ORC and there is another Kamau. That makes it a legal Haris for the Varuna Machinist to join.
     
  17. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Some of you are starting to making yourself crazy with the fireteams. It would be better if you reread this and then come back to the topic.
     
  18. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    To make a Haris you need a unit with the Haris skill. If that unit happens to be a Wildcard then it's applicable. Same for Duos.
    Because both Kamau and ORCs can form Haris, Patsy can work as the Haris unit for either of them. If the link looked like this
    Varuna Immediate Reaction Division
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    ORC MULTI Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40)
    KAMAU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)

    0 SWC | 97 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Then it would be an ORC Haris with a Kamau Wildcard replacing an ORC.
    If it looked like this:

    Varuna Immediate Reaction Division
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    KAMAU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    KAMAU (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)

    0 SWC | 77 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Then it would be a Kamau Haris since there's no ORC to make it an ORC Haris (becuase Patsy is a WIldcard rather than "count as ORC"). And because Machinist can join a Kamau Core or Haris, it's legal to replace one Kamau with him, but not if there was an ORC there instead.
     
  19. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    I was speaking figuratively.
     
  20. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    That's the point. I don't think anyone complains over rules changing. But the entire process here again is not communicated as a rules change. This is communicated like this was how it was supposed to be from the beginning. And after that when CB finds out their own rules set does not cover it in this way they silently change it. This is brought into the wiki as a sleeper update that most people won't notice for months.

    With luck it will be in the next FAQ. But even that is not a safe bet. Getting rulings into official sources does not seem to be a priority. I mean the only reason we know full auto and suppression is not supposed to stack is only a forum thread. Still hasn't made it into the FAQ. (And that thread is over 1 year old now)
     
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