Invincibles and quadrant control

I'm in the same boat with The Armory and Engineering Deck, I tend to use the Zhanshi with MSV2 HaiDao more and more in my listbuilding.
It is awesome as a defensive tool, it frees up points for Zenshas and the diffent bots and you can even affort to run a HacTao in any flavour which has the ability to put up to 70 points in the zone where you need it most.
The weakness of E/M and hidden missile launchers made me bring two lists, one with the Zuyong, and one with around 15 orders in two groups.

Example
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GROUP 1 9 1
Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 15)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
HAC TAO HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 68)
WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

GROUP 2 3
DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
LIÚ XĪNG (Specialist Operative) MULTI Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 38)
CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

6 SWC | 300 Points

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Maybe try going up the middle to take the four corners of the zones. Two steps and you can you can move a guy zone to zone.

 

A pair of Zhencha holding a rooftop or two mid-table with a Zhanshi-supported Haido Sniper to watch their back sounds like a nice setup for this mission. The Zhencha can redeploy to safe terrain areas quickly and set up a nice defense with Suppressive Fire and mines.

 

10/10 list, I want to run that one. Love it.

 

This one turned out quite alright

InfoSec 3.0
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GROUP 1 10
HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
SHÀNG JÍ Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 43)
SON-BAE Yaókòng Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)
ZÚYǑNG Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 30)
ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)

GROUP 2 2 1
Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

5.5 SWC | 299 Points

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Initial plan was to use REMs' Repeaters to stick Spotlight on nasty enemies, but that never happened because either the REMs couldn't move forward or the Rui Shi / Lu Duan took any resistance apart more efficiently than the SML could. Still, that option is open for abuse if you find dug-in nasties like Yadu or tightly grouped Dakini or similar Hackables with poor Dodge.
Two games were played where 1 Yaozao was forgotten, one game was played where the Warcor was forgotten. I'm not used to playing non-LI

The key is to use the REMs as main attack pieces. I lost games when I tried to push too early with the HI. The Gongcheng also needs to have their Yaozao close to where prestidigitation tells you your REMs will need repairing, so be aware of firelanes that might threaten S1 models. The two games I lost this weekend was when my Haidao KHD received fluke Isolation/Redrum - because apparently B2 WIP 13 gets beaten by B1 WIP 5 more often than you may think. For once the HMG Zuyong wasn't the star, his greatest accomplishment amounted to Engaging a Hollowman ML and then completely forgetting to CC ARO when the link team kept activating.

Lu Duan are also a god send. Use Holo2 to effectively "Cautious Move" into range of Repeaters to clear them with Blackout, "Cautious Move" past narrow firelanes, and also move his Repeater up a few more inches so they cover the objectives in case any infiltrating Hackers try to push buttons.

Most importantly, though; hide.

 

It is objectively better, but you have to fit the models in the list and put a completely defenseless model on the table. The complete lack of defenses on the human Baggage/EVO is what puts me off them the most

 

Thanks for reminding me of EVO baggage! I might just use this list for Supremacy! I had planned to use it for armoury and engineering deck and use a Zuyong link list for for supremacy, but depending on opponent I'll use My armoury list :)

i'm also in love with overclock, on Chaiyi stunned FIVE french troops in a single turn!

Unit 242 Objekt
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GROUP 1 9
HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
SHÀNG JÍ (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 43)
ZHANSHI HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 15)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
HAC TAO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 67)

GROUP 2 4
PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

4.5 SWC | 300 Points

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I like the following list very much. Because I love the Hac Tao ML, the Zensha AND I like the Zuyong Core. ;-)

SB - Linux v6
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9 1
ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
TAI SHENG Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
SHÀNG JÍ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 39)
PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
HAC TAO Missile Launcher, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 65)

6 SWC | 300 Points

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I can't really say I've had a problem with the scenario by default. Take advantage of the flexibility with link teams to get the models you want up the field and make use of repeaters to extend the coverage protection you get from that killer hacker with tinbot. A duo of Mowang with FTO baggage bot is very hard to hack and takes a considerable number of orders to deal with. (Or any duo with the repeater placed to intercept hack attempts.) Terrain will often determine how easily this can be done but I've had it work for me. Foregoing a full core link to have a core of 3-4 models, a haris and a duo has worked well for me going into hacker heavy lists. The extra orders from tactical awareness can help get up the table into quadrants and keeping the hacker team back so that you have options for reactions when the opponent comes forward makes things a lot less easy for opponents.

If the opponent is leaning on E/M weaponry then it's a much tougher battle and one I don't face very often. Having a TO reaction piece can help as covering the necessary approach and having the patience and foresight to ensure that when the opponent goes for their E/M attack they've got a hard choice about it and hopefully only the one chance takes both practice and experience but it can work.

IA has one reasonable strategy in scenarios like quadrant control in that any quadrant you occupy will likely require your opponent to dedicate more models and effort than you to dominate the quadrants you hold. If you go first this means that turn 1 you just need to ensure you hold the quadrants on your side of the board so that the opponent cannot control more zones than you. Don't worry too much about the mid-table as that just means the enemy gets to you that much quicker. With the order efficiency and point cost per model IA can leverage via links and the number of HI they have, I've found it takes a lot of effort for opponents to dominate zones on my side of the board during the early game. It's incredibly list dependent (both yours and the opponents) but is something I feel that IA can do reasonably well. A zencha or Liu xing can put a model into a quadrant in the enemy half of the table and force the issue for them having an easy time of even scoring the same number of quadrants. (On top of potentially having had their back line mauled.)

Tinbot links provide incredible defence against enemy hacking but don't underestimate the benefits of repeater coverage in combination with a tinbot supported hacker for dissuading enemy hacking.

E/M is more of an issue but is also less reliable in my experience and doesn't actually remove models from the game forcing the opponent to still have to deal with them if they want to dominate a zone. (Just so long as you've already moved the models into the quadrants.)

 

Taking advantage of this thread for a similar request: I have to play a 200 pts Quadrant Control mission with Vanilla Yu Jing against Varuna.
I really don't know how to deal with their Sniper FT with such a few pts, while still trying to accomplish quadrants control.
Do I stop worrying about the Sniper and go deal with it eventually with an Hac Tao HMG? Do I take a Rui Shi to buff? Or should I try Lunah (and/or with Zhanying+Nimbus)?
Except for the Rui Shi, I do feel that all the other options are either not super efficient or taking away points from quadrant control.

 

The best advise would be to ignore that FT as good as possible. It costs half the army of Varuna in 200 pts and has to move to contest a quadrant.

I maybe play a list like the following (quickly build):
- Libertos/Kanren für Board Control
- Krakot against Jammers
- Mowang as attack piece with 12 Orders (NOT against the Sniper Link)
- Ninja as last minute points in a quadrant.

Its lacking some ARO pieces, but you can't have it all in 200 points ;-)

QC
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9 1 3
NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
MÓWÁNG (NCO) Red Fury, Akrylat-Kanone / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1 | 52)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
KǍNRÈN Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, MadTraps / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 28)

3 SWC | 200 Points

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If you are playing Vanilla, at least you have a bit more choice. Zhanying with Madraps, Nimbus, and Triangulated fire can be pretty good. Also, Kanren with holoechos if done right. Or even a Kanren with Madtraps, giving him 5 different things to shoot. Though since it’s Quad Control you have consoles to control right? So you might want a specialist Kanren.

If you are planning on a Kamau, I think I’d go with Pheasant MSR. He has MSV1 to ignore it’s Mimetisim, then with Marksmanship he’s going to ignore cover. Lunah is fantastic but her advantage of Mimetisim is also gone to the Kamau. Especially if Surprise shot doesn’t work. Free Agent can be useful too.

After him my next choice would be Knauf. Again, MSV1 but also his own mimetisim against the non-msv troops and BS13.

3rd Guilang MSR. MSV1 with Surprise shot. Then his infiltration can make sure he gets the exact spot you need him to be.

After all the Snipers I’d do a Lu Duan. MSV1 with Holoechos and put marksman on it. You can do the same as the Kanren. Again ignoring his mimetisim, cover AND he might shoot a holo instead.

 

There are no consoles in OC, please do the math before you consider attacks on the Kamau.
The Pheasant under Nimbus Smoke is quite likely to do a wound on the Kamau indeed, but its still quite likely to just loose him:

Example with Marksman LX under Nimbus Smoke
Active Player
60.49% Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious)
33.34% Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead)

Failures
17.89% Neither player succeeds
Reactive Player
21.62% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) (Unconscious)
8.00% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Imperial Agent, Pheasant Rank (MSV 1) (Dead)

 

Thank you @Space Ranger and @zapp for the advices!
After playing a little bit with math, I think I'll go with something really similar to what zapp suggested in the first post, except I'll add a Rui Shi and slightly more orders.

Quadrant Control 200
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GROUP 1 9 1 4
MÓWÁNG (NCO) Red Fury, Akrylat-Kanone / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1 | 52)
RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
NINJA Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 26)
Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)

GROUP 2 1 3 3
DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)

4 SWC | 200 Points

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The plan is to ignore the Kamau with anything except the Rui Shi, which I'll try to take into the 8-16 range of the Kamau and buff with Marksmanship L2 (and obviously shooting from behind a cover).

If I have to deal with the Kamau, I think this would be the best way to bring math to my side:

Face to Face Roll
Yáoxiè Rui Shi - Spitfire vs. Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) - MULTI Sniper Rifle
Active Player
63.73% Yáoxiè Rui Shi inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious)
31.53% Yáoxiè Rui Shi inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead)

Failures
20.41% Neither player succeeds
Reactive Player
15.86% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Yáoxiè Rui Shi (Unconscious)
1.42% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Yáoxiè Rui Shi (Unconscious 2)

For the others, I'll use smoke and the Liberto to control the quadrants and use the Mowang to roam around and secure/score points. The Ninja is there for some last minute scoring and TO Camo shenanigans.

 

I hardly ever think about Math. Might as well play 40k then. Do you play to win or to have fun? I try to play to have fun, winning is extra fun

 

How can you have fun running all around without considering chances of success then?
I mean, I personnally don't have fun if I'm not sure I played the best I could. Having fun with my opponent is the goal of playing a game; winning is the goal of the game we chose to share.