1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Wildcards (not) replacing all Fireteam core Troopes

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Hachiman Taro, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. Commoner1

    Commoner1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    373
    It doesn't. But my guess is that they're in panic mode because they broke their game with the new and reworked sectorials of the last year and can't just make a rollback.
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    Have they? Dashat is good but it's no OSS.
     
  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    9,657
    And what exactly makes the game broken, and CB in panic mode? Because for me this is an overstatement.

    They certainly went overboard with the links' complexity and to some extent power level, but it's nothing that can't be dealt with using the tools we already have. They're just a bit too difficult to deal with for their price brackets.

    Today's clarification is a step in a good direction, though for me it's still too mild a solution, and I certainly agree that a complete review - and language standarization - of fireteams is in order.
     
    Solar, toadchild, Berjiz and 4 others like this.
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    It's not even a solution. It doesn't help at all, in addition to making the precedent that podcasts are part of the rules now.
     
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,032
    Likes Received:
    15,326
    No it doesn't. Helllois posted here. This hububb isn't because the game's main rules designer said something on a podcast, it's because they actually put it out in print on the rules question forum.
     
  6. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    852
    not really, it makes the precedent that HellLois post on the forum (with IJW adding them on the wiki) is part of the rules now. The podcast in effect happened to be nothing more than a rule update preview that got quickly added to the forum and wiki.
     
    Stiopa and Mahtamori like this.
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    The only reason HellLois posted it here was because of that podcast and people asking if it was real.
     
    jimbo slice likes this.
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    How would someone who doesn't comb through the forums obsessively know about this change? It needs to be in the FAQ to count.
     
    meikyoushisui, Ginrei and LuAn like this.
  9. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    11,320
    It is in the wiki is it not? and it has already been addressed for the FAQ.
     
    Stiopa and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  10. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    428
    Only part is in the wiki. The ruling on Rhu Shi and other non Wildcard units that join Fireteams is not.
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,032
    Likes Received:
    15,326
    I'm fairly certain he conferred with Interruptor before answering. Or that the answer was already obvious to them, just not to us.
     
  12. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,089
    Likes Received:
    1,991
    The wiki appears to be the rules now. So it is in the rules.

    This seems to be a change from before where the wiki only reflected the rules as published, and not clarifications on the forum. I dont think that has been officially announced, though I think Bostria mentioned moving to a 'living rulebook' in a seminar. Some players have asked for that for a while, its very 21st century.

    As for the rule getting known, forum clarifications got known before, because players spread them. It works, not as well as a FAQ entry, but sounds like we will get that too.

    Slight (but not critical) problems to me are:

    a) The wording isnt very clear without ijws clarification that the troopers who validate a fireteam core with wildcards need to be mentioned in an entry that says core in the sectorial fireteam chart not just a special fireteam that ends up making a fireteam core. Thats not actually what the official wording says.

    B) A similar (slightly more restrictive) effect could be achieved more simply by requiring a core fireteam to have a trooper from the entry in the fireteam chart with fireteam: core in its profile to be part of the team when it is formed. This would also be more consistent with how Haris and Duos work.

    Personally I'd go even further and make it that a Core needs to include at least one Trooper of the type its listed next to in its fireteam chart. So a fireteam listed next to Alguaciles needs at least 1 Alguacile in it (including counts as). That's just less confusing.

    As it is, i like the idea to tone wildcards down a little, but they managed to make fireteams even more complex, and they were quite complicated already.
     
    #132 Hachiman Taro, Jun 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
    Ogid, inane.imp and daboarder like this.
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,148
    Likes Received:
    9,666
    Yes, please!


    And this too!
     
    Berjiz, LuAn and Hecaton like this.
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    The answer doesn't follow from the rules. Moreover, there's no changelog or notification of update.
     
    Daniel Darko likes this.
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,032
    Likes Received:
    15,326
    It doesn't? Care to explain how when literally the full extent of the rule for it can be summarised with "X can join Y" and we're told "you have to have at least one Y, not just Y replacements" doesn't follow the rules?
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    What if someone showed up to a tournament this weekend, not having heard about the change, and found out their list couldn't make a 5-man fireteam?
     
    jimbo slice likes this.
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    There's no fireteam to join before it's created. There's no "joining," per se. If replacing the last member of the fireteam with a trooper that isn't the same invalidates it, why doesn't replacing the first one do so?

    We're told something, yes, but it doesn't follow from the rules, so it amounts to new rules inserted with no warning based on an extemporaneous comment made on a podcast.
     
    jimbo slice likes this.
  18. Miraclebutt

    Miraclebutt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2018
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    304
    I'm pretty sure everyone here understands the intent of the rule, but this:

    Makes it sound like you don't like what you read and are grasping at straws. I mean you're literally trying get a rules definition for the word Joining. Take a hard step back and realize what point you're trying to make.
     
  19. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,353
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    In the following Fireteam...

    Special Fireteam: Core. Up to 4 Hungries (Gakis and/or Pretas) + 1 or 2 Oznats.

    Can a Wildcard replace a Oznat?

    Is 4 Hungries + Raktorak a valid Hungries fireteam?

    Can Wildcard replace hard requirements, or should only be interpreted as "up to X can join" added to the Fireteam chart?

    I forgot about the Hungries Control Device. I assume you can't, because of the device. But what if the Device was not needed, my question is trying to illustrate the "Up to X" and "2 of Y" as hard caps.
     
    #139 Diphoration, Jun 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
    Ginrei likes this.
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    I understand the intent of what's being said, I just think it's a major problem that a CB employee will say something about how the game should be played on a podcast, and what they say has no support in the rules, and then it's rushed into the wiki, when there are other outstanding rules questions that actually have meaningful balance implications that are ignored.
     
    jimbo slice likes this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation