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Wildcards (not) replacing all Fireteam core Troopes

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Hachiman Taro, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. HellLois

    HellLois What the Hell...Lois?
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    Same as mine :P


    I will study it to add to the next FAQ Update.


     
  2. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    A much less messy way to go about it would be to 1) clearly indicate which unit is the foundation of the fireteam (Frontoviks in case of Fronts+112, Fusiliers OR Orc's in case of their mixed fireteam, etc), and then keep the part about requiring at least one trooper from that founding unit (so 1 Front, 1 112, 3 Vets would be legal, but 4 Vets + 112 wouldn't).

    I'd also seriously consider restricting the number of Wildcards able to join any one link.

    This
     
  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    That's not what @HellLois said. He said that you need a unit listed for that Fireteam in that Sectorial chart. Mobile Brigada ARE a unit listed for that Fireteam in the Sectorial chart.
     
  4. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    And with IJWs clarification (it has to be a Fireteam: Core on the chart, special or otherwise) it's clear that Tsyklon (counts as Brigada) + Lupe (Wildcard) + Daktari (Wildcard) is a valid Special Fireteam: Core to the one listed next to Alguaciles. You could also Have Valeria (Counts as Alguacile), Lupe (Wildcard), Daktari (Wildcard) as an Alguacile Fireteam: core.
     
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  5. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Frontoviks OR the 112

    IJW pointed out it is legal
     
  6. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    I know, I'd simply like to see it restricted a bit further
     
  7. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Shrug, I disagree
     
  8. rushputin

    rushputin Well-Known Member

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    I'm probably being slow because I've just started my coffee, but:

    Does this affect only Core or does it affect Special Core links as well?

    I ask because in the case of Special Core, it might be hard to tell/clarification is required on which is the "unit" associated. ie:

    Corregidor: Special Fireteam: Core. Up to 3 Alguaciles and up to 2 Mobile Brigadas.

    Do I need 1+ Alguacile? Or 1+ Mobile Brigada? Or 1+ of both? Or 1+ of neither (because this change only affects the standard Cores, not Special Cores)​

    Corregidor: Special Fireteam: Core. Up to 4 Jaguars + Señor Massacre.

    Do I need +1 Jaguar here? This is listed under Massacre, as well, do I need 1+ of him, too?​
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    This distinction is grammatically confusing. I'd almost argue confusing enough that it should only be added/fixed in a new edition review when language is allowed to further mature and become more unified in the core rules.
     
  10. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    A Special Fireteam: Core is still a Fireteam: Core. So:
    The Alguaciles + Brigada Core must include one Alguacil or one Brigada.
    The Jaguar + Massacre must include one Jaguar or Massacre.
     
  11. BLOODGOD

    BLOODGOD Vampire Hunter

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    I've been down on these crazy fireteams for quite a while, and none of this is helping.
     
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  12. rushputin

    rushputin Well-Known Member

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    OK, that makes sense. On rereading the rule I clearly wasn't reading it correctly. Thanks!
     
  13. ndeguise

    ndeguise Well-Known Member
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    So, maybe I'm slow, but I see a few ways Fireteams are formed:

    Example 1: Up to 3 Vet Kazaks + 2 Frontnoviks - In this case the Wildcard can replace either the Kazaks or the Frontnoviks?
    Example 2: Up to 3 Alguaciles and up to 2 Mobile Brigada. Tsyklons Count As Mobile Brigada. - So, you could have 1 Tysklon and 4 Wildcards?
    Example 3: Zuyong Invisibles (Core). Up to 1 Rui Shi can join ... - This CANNOT have 1 Rui Shi and 4 Wildcards, it requires at least 1 Zuyong
    Example 4: Grenzer Core. Up to 1 Interventor can join... - This requires at least 1 Grenzer? 1 Interventor cannot join the team alone?
    Example 5: Bagh-Mari or Regulars Core - Up to 2 Bagh-Mari can join any Fireteam Core of Regulars - Same as above? At least 1 Regular is required?

    Is it a differentiation of how it's written?

    Example: Up to X + Y - Anything can be replaced as long as you have X or Y?
    Example: Up to X and up to Y - Same, anything can be replaced as long as you have X or Y?
    Example: Up to X can join a Fireteam of Y. - You must have at least 1 Y in order for the team to be legal? You cannot have just X plus Wildcards?
    Example: Z Counts as Y. Up to X + Y. - Since Z = Y, Z can be in the Fireteam with any number of Wildcards?

    Does that align with what is intended? I really don't get that sense from the rules as written.
     
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  14. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    Does this logic for Wildcard extend to any kind of Special Fireteam... Haris etc?
     
  15. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    "Count as" is pretty clear.
    "Wildcard" only says "X can be of any Fireteam of this Sectorial Army."

    The new ruling makes a distinctions between the two when it mentions that you need a minimum of (1) trooper from the list and that "Count as" can be used to bypass that restriction, but not "Wildcard".

    This distinction makes it seem as though "Count as" can replace, but that "Wildcard" cannot replace and that rule wording for "Wildcard" is more akin to "X can join a Y Fireteam".

    If we take the Frontovik special fireteam, the following example:
    "Up to 3 Veteran Kazaks + 2 Frontoviks",
    I feel like with current wordings on rule, the fireteam should read...
    "Up to 3 Veteran Kazaks + 2 Frontoviks + Up to X Wildcards"

    As wildcard are not "Count as" as implied by the new changes, they should not override hard requirements.
     
  16. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Yes.
     
  17. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Now. If the sole core member bites it, is the team still valid?
     
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  18. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Fireteam composition rules apply to creation of a Fireteam. Standard cancellation rules are unaffected.
     
  19. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    i'm probably too late, did not read all the other page yet, but the new rule is clearly about core, not about haris, duo or triad.
     
  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I just went through all of the Fireteams and, while I am guaranteed to miss some, this doesn't change a lot unless you're playing Dahshat. Here's the "banned" ones I can find:
    Acon: Bagh-Mari + Orcs + Rao, unless you add a Regular or remove the Orc
    QK: Hafza + Hafza + Leila, but I don't know why you'd want to waste a Core on this in the first place
    IA: Haidao + Panggo + Son-Bae, but I don't know why you'd want to waste a Core on this in the first place
    Varuna: Patsy + Clipper + Machinist, but I don't know why you'd want to waste a Core on this in the first place and adding a Kamau Wildcard makes it valid
    NCA: Bipandra + Machinist + Aquila + Black Friar, unless you add a Bolt
    MO: Father-Knight + Santiago + Black Friar, unless you add an Order Sergeant
    MO: Father-Knight + Santiago, but I don't know why you'd want to waste a Core on this in the first place
    Dahshat: Rui Shi have to have an actual Zuyong
    Dahshat: Sforza + ABH + Gromoz + Miranda, unless you add a Zuyong, Brawler, or Ghulam

    Just be careful late-game when reforming your battle-ravaged force!
     
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