So, as title implies, we've had a rules problem at the tournament two days ago. The situation was approximately like this - a Ninja in active turn declared Move into BtB contact, his enemy AROed with a BS Attack, and the Ninja declared a CC Attack as the second short skill, using MA3. The question is as follows - does the negative MOD from MA3 apply to any FtF roll that your opponent makes? Like, MA3 vs a BS Attack or a Dodge. Or does it apply only if your opponent declares a CC Attack?
You need to refer to CC Special Skills: http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/CC_Special_Skills Specifically - "Opponent MOD: A MOD applied to the Attribute of an enemy when making a Face to Face Roll." So yes, it applies to the BS attack.
Okay, that is easy to understand. However, the guy who had this situation claims that since the description of MA has a line that says "Each Level of Martial Arts gives a series of specific MODs and advantages to CC, as shown in the Martial Arts Chart.", it can only apply MODs to CC. Does that work like that?
No. Martial Arts is a CC Special Skill, so it follows the rules for CC Special Skills. It applies to whatever face to face roll is being made (CC attack, Dodge, BS attack).
Yes. Think about how it works fluff-wise -- your guy runs in using his Martial Arts abilities, which makes it much harder to shoot him. It's hard to shoot a guy who is stabbing you.
I don't know about that fluff... The phrase "bring a knife to a gunfight" exist for a reason XD. But let's say the the MA guy is very good at feinting so the gun guy have a harder time shooting him down
Have you ever heard of the 21 foot rule? It's outdated in-and-of itself, but the lower level concept, the idea that in very close distances, an attacker with a knife can close in and get someone before they have a chance to react, is still true. Also remember that the MA skill in Infinity represents copious amounts of CC training. A Warcor is a regular dude and CC10, compared to most basic line troops at CC13. It's not until you get up to tons of training that you start seeing any type of MA (CC19 MA1-2 is the lowest CC value for which MA appears on any profile iirc, which is the Hsien and Kanren) even though most soldiers have at least some type of Martial Arts training.
I'm aware, but that rule is taking into account the surprise factor, a sheathed weapon and the weapon dude panicking a bit. A knife is still not the most reliable way to beat someone with a gun.
But. We're not talking about someone trained in the use of a Knife and Gun effectively. We're not talking about a veteran Navy Seal or any of that trash-level skills here. We're talking about forever-young cyber Ninjas wearing invisibility devices in a Bruce Lee movie taking down corporate guns for hire. That said, I find it funny that the biggest asset of disabling someone with melee doesn't exist outside of Knives in Infinity - something said cyber Ninjas don't have - Silent take downs.
You bet! What the 7-yard rule is really about is how big your circle of awareness needs to be. If someone is a potential threat, you need to have identified them as such and started your response to them long before they get to ~7m range. 50ft/15m is a pretty good size for your awareness bubble. Also, if we assume Infinity's ground scale is roughly 1"=2m, that 7m range is only 3.5-4". That's Move+CC range, and Kinematika Engage range. 50ft/15m is then roughly 8". Hey, isn't that your ZOC?
The ninja jumping all around the place while dodging and deflecting bullets to end slicing the poor guy is the move + CC attack. The move + CC attack from a marker state with extra negative mods from MA is the 21 foot rule in infinity. Cool! To be honest I miss more utility and cool options in close combat, aside from E/M CCW there isn't that many thing to do in CC apart form put the enemy out of their missery. Things like displacemets to set up AoE attacks or some ability to disable and use enemies as meat shields would be cool
Well, I think part of the problem with the apparent lack of Silent Takedowns in the game is that we call the state that means 'incapable of continuing combat, regardless of field first aid' Dead. Should probably replace 'Unconscious' with 'Down' and 'Dead' with 'Out of Action'. I don't care if your heart is still beating, you're not capable of fighting with a broken pelvis! In other games, the status of a casualty was not necessarily known until you sent someone over to check them, with the exception of PA suits. So you'd have a trooper go down and mark it with an 'unchecked casualty' marker. When someone could check them, you'd roll to see how bad they were, and could get anywhere from 'back in action' to 'stabilized' to 'dead' as a result. Stargrunt was written probably 30 years ago now, so there wasn't any hint of an automedikit that could tell you if your trooper was OK or not on every dude like I am pretty sure we are assuming for Infinity. Now, though, that's something intended to be worked into combat uniforms within the next 15-20 years, and sooner if they can figure it out.
¿Maybe a martial artist could provoke INM-Level 1? ¿Or stund? Instead the death state? Of course declaring this intention before any kind of rolle will be made.
Shock explicitly kills people which is why it's not tolerated under normal laws of war in Infinity. There's no down, only dead. Besides it sounds as if you're describing Unconscious state in a universe where not everyone has a comm log keeping track of your vitals, but more than just one soldier is equipped with basic medical supplies. Point is, backstabbing and causing a silent takedown isn't really part of the game much and that's a bit of a shame. CCWs seem to force your model to loudly call out "have at ye!" before attacking. Basically what I feel is missing is that most true melee weapons (not pistols and for obvious reasons nnot EXP CCW) should be silent and that a "backstab" should be combineable with Coup de Grace (i.e. the extra twist and pull to make sure they stay dead)
Yeah, that's the idea. Cool extra things to do in CC. I can understand why they aren't there, extra rules for a niche mechanic that will only be used by a few models/armies. And even with the extra cool options a dead enemy is one less order for the enemy and 1 less aro. But still, some cool abilities off the top of my head: Human Shield, skill (idea: the enemies will have to cope with the -6 for attacking an engaged enemy, you can move your target and kill him in a safer area): If this model is engaged in CC with a INM-1/2 or stunned model he can declare any order as if he wasn't engaged. If the enemy model has the same or lower S, the short action move will also drag the engaged model without breaking the engaged state. Even if any skill, equipment or special rule would allow it, this movement cannot be used to move for vertical surfaces. Hidraulic Jacks (idea: throw an easy target to set up a template attack that may catch other high value targets, also cool): The attacking model may get a -3 to his CC, in this case if the attack is successful the enemy is moved 4' in addition to any other effect. This movement applies the rules of a jump, but wont cause falling damage unless the enemy model falls more than 6' Bodyguard: If an enemy engage in CC with a friendly model you are in B2B, you can move into B2B with that enemy at the end of the skill/aro used by the enemy. In the reactive turn, this doesn't count as an ARO. If an enemy trooper is engaged with this model, the enemy trooper must distribute at least 1 B to the Bodyguard model
