Executive Order and Lieutenant Level 2

No, it specify :

I'd argue granting is not the same as using the special order. Your claim is the Lt L2 is what gives the ability to use the order, but i don't see that in there. All I see is that it generates a second one. And as it is labelled "Third Offensive Content." i think it is the correct updated rule.

 

The orders are of the same type. There’s no way to tell which is the “first” and which is the “second”. If they wanted that effect, they should have had it generate a Lieutenant L2 order, not an additional Lieutenant order.

 

Just to clarify because I am a bit lost.
Lets say it's the start of my turn, orders are generated including 2 Lt orders.
If I move a hidden deployment out and he has XO will he be able to spend both of the generated LT orders?
What about someone with NCO? Can they spend both of the generated LT orders?

 

I have no interest in discussing the semantics of wording in the English language for a ruleset written in Spanish. That's got us literally nowhere, and sometimes backwards in the past.

IJW said earlier it's a no.

If we wanted to take it further I'd suggest looking at the Spanish wording.

 

actually the rules says:
» In addition, Lieutenant L2 grants the user a secondSpecial Lieutenant Order. This extra Order is added to the

rst and, like the rst, it is not included in the Order Pool.

it's not specify that the user must be the owner of the skill.

 

No, IJW said the CoC/XO will not gain LT2 and will not generate a pair of Lt Order at the start of the turn. That is not related to the question of what you do with already generated Lt Orders on the turn that CoC/XO kicks in.

 

and it is not pointless arguing on semantics. you are literally saying the rule says something that is different than what was written, while claiming it is true. It is the same if i'd claim the Lt L2 rule says you get 3 orders, you tell me "no, it says 2" and i'd say you are just arguing semantics about the meaning of two versus three. Granting order is not the same as spending them.

 

I'll allow you to quote the spanish rule, if it helps you prove that "The Lt L2 skill specifies the user of the skill may use the second special order." I already quoted you the English rules. And what you say that is specified in it, well I can't find it in the bullets points.

 

What @Robock said - I asked this as a followup question because it was not covered by the initial portion of the discussion.

 

Well if they are trying to decide if the answer should be yes or no, I would say the best answer is a simple yes.
If it is a second LT order then two orders are generated and go into a pool. KISS approved!
If testing showed this to be to much of an issue then make it a different special order like tactical sense. Not as kiss but it fixes it if it is an issue with power... So what was the intention so we can FAQ this and move on already.

 

Sorry for dabbling in thread necromancy here, but...

Has it been cleared up yet if you can spend both Lieutenant orders on your Executive Order unit or not yet?

I know both can be spent on NCO units ( We already have sectorials that base a substantial chunk of their appeal around this. ), but can this be used to say, set up a situation like this:
Got a Daoying Sniper Lieutenant Level 2.
Got a Hac Tao HMG Exec Order.
Can I reveal the Hac Tao from HD and be able to use those two orders on it?

I'm mentioning this specific scenario, since this is these are the only two units where Lieutenant Level 2 and Executive Order meets ( Nowhere else can Lieutenant Level 2 and Executive Order can be found in the same army list, as far as I am aware. ).

 

By RAW, since you have two (identical) Lieutenant Special Orders already generated when the XO shows up and says, "I am LT now!", why wouldn't you be able to have the XO spend both?

You have already generated orders for that turn!

Now, I would NOT allow someone to generate two LT orders the turn after the XO shows up, because the LT2 model is not the LT anymore.

 

From my point of view, the orders are generated, but they are not in an accessible pool. They are "set aside" for the LT to use. The question is, if another trooper becomes the LT (in the active turn), does he heir the orders? I guess, that is the question to ask.

And I would say "no". It seems to be a trooper's specific pool, which cannot be accessed by another trooper, regardles if he becomes LT and gets the skill. BUT, I am not 100% sure about the general rules of those specific pools, because they are not explained - as far as I know...

 

Executive Order doesn't say that you generate a new Special LT Order if it's already been spent when you reveal the XO.

Chain of Command doesn't say that you generate a new Special LT Order if it's already been spent when CoC activates.

The Special Lieutenant Order itself only says that only the LT can use it, with NCO amending the Special LT Order rule to allow a model with NCO to spend the LT Order as if it were a regular order in the order pool.


Nothing says that if the LT dies (or enters a Null State) before spending the LT Order, those LT orders go way.


So I'd say that if you still have Special LT Order(s) when XO or CoC comes into play, the new LT can spend them.

 

Well, you never generate orders outside of the ordercount. But of course you keep those generated until they are spend or until the end of the round. An irregular trooper (as a weak reference) still has his unspend order in his personal orderpool, even if he dies. You can't use it (unless you convert it to a regular order). It is there - and locked. I assume, the LT Order works the same way. Our difference is: you say being the (new) LT allows to access the LT-Order-Pool and I say it is bound to the miniature itself (like the Lvl2 order). Who knows?

I respect your reading of the rules. If Lieutenant would be some kind of status... the only identifier of a LT is the unique skill... you could have it right.
Maybe we will get some additional information at one point. Until then I am undecided.

 

I’d say the new Lt can use the orders generated normally, I see why this may cause confusion but after checking the pertinent wiki pages that’s what seems the most probable.

The Lt skill doesn’t give us a definitive answer. It says “The user of this special skill has a special Lieutenant Order”, the level 2 say that it works exactly like level 1 but giving the user a second special Lt Order that is added to the first (creating its kind of own pool). “The user” may be the model that is the Lt in that moment (in that case a new Lt could use the order generated) or “The user” may refer to the model that generated that order (in that case a new Lt couldn’t use those orders). Unclear

But if we compare the Order definitions, it tips the balance towards the first case. While the impetuous and irregular orders specify that only the models that generated them are the only ones allowed to spend them, in the Lt order page it only refers to the Lt, nowhere says that “only the Lt that generate those orders may spend them” or something like that. It only refer to the model with that “rank”.

Then as Executive Order give the user the Lt rank, I see no problem in the new LT using the already generated orders as these orders seems ligated to the rank, not to the model that generated them. Also nowhere in Lt1 say that they are only allowed to spend 1 Lt order so again it should be allowed. Of course in the next turn the Executive Order will be the Lt, and in that case only order would be generated.

An official response never hurts but this case seems clear to me.

 

You need to quote the Level 2 text as well:

"In addition, Lieutenant L2 grants the user a second Special Lieutenant Order..."

As far as I'm concerned we're back to the same answer as for XO and CoC: