As our local community is still in its infancy, we're not going for the full monty, still, from my days playing N2, I knew 200 points is a level which is easy enough to get to and frequently comes down to "starter + some stuff you like"; managable yet with more "meat" than starter box/150 point games. We're intending to play scenarios soon enough, although 200 points is tight when it comes to specialists. So here I am, trying my hand at list building after not playing the game for 7 years. So, toying around with the RTF: Ramah Taskforce ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 ZHAYEDAN Lieutenant (Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) KHAWARIJ (Chain of Command, Fatality L1) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 32) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L1, Multispectral Visor L2) Mk12 / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) GHULAM (NCO) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 1.5 SWC | 200 Points Open in Infinity Army This list went through some attempts: It's got a full-ish link; either via Leila or with one of the Khawarij (probably the CoC one) filling them up. - Swap out one Naffatun for a FO Ghulam perhaps? So, what does it have going for/against it? + 10 Orders, I withstood the temptation to put shinies everywhere, this time. + Smoke/MSV + Some pretty aggressive models + MSV Khawarij with an effective Dam.16 murderboomer. + Doc says peple have to put my guys down or they might be back up. + I can into mine removal. ~ Zhayedans are a bit too expensive (or they just need a it more PH to pull off their automedkit semi-reliably?), but I figured the Lt. option lets me play him up aggressively, entice people into a seemingly favorable trade, then counter with the other stuff I have. RTF has shitty staying power so I guess it's going to be the trade-game (again). Marksmanship L2 + Breaker rifle is at least a cute/scary combo. - Everything is fragile as hell. - The link team requires babysitting from beefier models that might have better things to do if they want to stay at full strength. - No engineer/Specialist Operative to push buttons that can't be pushed by Hackergirl/Doctorgirl(?) - No mines, ergo, defense means trading. That and having Khawarij's go dolphin-diving into high-and-dry cover with their last order(s). -- No infiltrator or flanker; everything is coming from my deployment zone. Now, the game has changed a bit since I left it/the local meta fell apart, but these are new times! Burn it to the ground if the list deserves it :v
Also, as noted by a helpful person elsewhere: Dropping one point (via downgrading the HFT Baffatun) would let me swap out the (overpriced) Zhayedan for a Khawarij Spitfire Lt. Because Fatality L2 on a 4 burst -potentially 5- is "fair and balanced" :v
I lost Achilles to the active turn of one of those *unlinked* this sunday. Order one: move + crit on 1 Order two: move + crit on 1 Order three: move + crit on 1 That was after eating 2 Fidays directed by Saladin, and having a Mukhtar coming for me. To increase the ridiculesness of it all, that Khawarij died at the hands of a Minelayer Libertos.
Mine removel or not, if I don't have a disposable to refill I would go for a S3 order rather then a S4 one. Can't understand why you take the Zhayedan as Lieutenant. Take the lonely vanilla Gulam. Then you can afford a Mukhtar(not fragile) or a Nahab(button pusher). In Haqq, you have always fragile troops and have to trade up. Ramah Taskforce ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 KHAWARIJ (Chain of Command, Fatality L1) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 32) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L1, Multispectral Visor L2) Mk12 / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) GHULAM (NCO) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MUKHTAR Viral Rifle, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) 1.5 SWC | 199 Points Open in Infinity Army EDIT: Your CoC can push button too
To be honest, using only 1,5SWC on 200pts is rather suicidal ;) Especially that you're getting SWC only on Hacker and LGL, not any heavy guns, so you don't have any good ARO (linked ML, HRL, even sniper) and not even any good active hunter (HMG, spitfire). You should definitely think about it, because playing with such army can be just boring - for you and your opponent too. And I like Zhayedan, I used him with some successes and some fails, but now in RTF we have much more interesting options in similar cost (Mukhtar for example). I'm thinking on 200pts army lists too, because I'm organising big event with my friends, the Championship of Pomerania, for 200pts, ITS, Spec Ops 8XP, LI in the end of July. Scenarios: Frontline, Unmasking, Firefight, Frostbyte, Looting and Sabotaging, Quadrant control. I'm obviously not going to play in this big event, but I'm going to play in our prequel to that tournament, which will be in the end of June. So here's my idea for this points level: Ramah Taskforce ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 1 KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32) KHAWARIJ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 28) GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17) GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) NAFFATÛN Lieutenant Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM (Infinity Spec-Ops) (8 XP) (Doctor Plus, Minelayer, Holoprojector L1) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) MUKHTAR (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) CARMEN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades + Bâtard / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 22) BÂTARD Trench-hammer, AP CCW. (- | 5) 4 SWC | 200 Points Open in Infinity Army So - a big link with ARO options (Khawa HRL + Ghulam ML and even Ghulam FO for closer range), hunting options (Khawa Spit), Naffatuns for defence, and a Duo of specialists - Mukhtar and Leila. Plus very fast Carmen, who can easily use Panoplies, hunt down enemies in CC, even destroy AC2, or just lay smoke for my forces. Not sure about the stuff used on SpecOps - definitely he'll be my Doctor. And giving him Minelayer + Holo is funny, because I can hide him as something else and then the Camouflaged mine can be a surprise ;) PozdRawiam / Greetings
Limi──────────────────────────────────────────────────9 1 1 GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17) GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) MUKHTAR Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) MUKHTAR (Fireteam: Haris) Viral Rifle, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) MUKHTAR Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Rifle + Light Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) CARMEN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades + Bâtard / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 22) BÂTARD Trench-hammer, AP CCW. (- | 5) 4 SWC | 199 PointsOpen in Infinity Army What about this one?
I'm detracting from the original topic here, but adding Fat2 onto a B5 shooter with high BS (so think with Core bonuses) have rather different impact depending on what you are shooting at. Against something mundane such as linked line trooper in a Core link and within your good range it will be roughly an equivalent of adding 2 BS, so it's slightly weaker than adding mimetism (against that non-MSV target) would be. Against something mimetic and placed in your -3 range (in cover, obviously, just like previous target), well, slapping Fat2 onto our setup will be arguably a bit more powerful than, say, adding Full Auto 2 to Feuerbach wielder, which is really impactful in that case. Your odds won't obviously be stellar, just way better than we expect from something shooting assault weapons across the table at hard targets. So personally I'm back to the spot where I was just after Fat2 announcement: the main fault of this rule is its inertia. That said, we should probably take this discussion to this thread instead.
You are half-right in my opinion, SWC is not something you must fill at all costs, you look at the list and you just see if you have all the tools in it, in this case, yeah, I might be better off with 9 or even 8 orders but beefier gun selection. Even so; say, the MSV2 Fat1 Mk12 may not be an HMG, but it serves somewhat the same purpose as ye olde HMG Djan I played the shit out of back in the days of N2 Qapu, in which I was down on SWC all the time. It's also a bit of the dilemma of 200 points, where you either get max orders, or fill out your shinies. Also, it can do the smoke MSV thing. So while the point is legit ie. "use more of the shit you have been given"it isn't something you must fill at all costs as long as you "cover your approaches", but that is my philosophy. As for the Zhayedan: He's in the box and I want to use him, at least until the scrubs around here l2p and I can't crutch by on being an old as shit veteran anymore which is funny because the Zhayedan is a Veteran :v I'd probably really try to get a boarding shotty Nahab in there or something, I guess... Also, re: the Remote: I just have a Kameel but it's on the old base so I guess it would be better to use it as one of the S3 models. I guess I could ditch it for an extra Nasmat if need be, three points is perfectly acceptable for a small one-use mine clearing device :v
If you're going to stick with the zhayedan, which I wouldn't recommend, then your best bet to free up points is the khawarij in the core team. He's currently there for chain of command, right? That's a fine thing to take, but it could be swapped out for a nahab with points to spare on upgrading your naffatun or kameel. A rafiq would be nice. On the subject of mines, dont discount the option of just triggering them with a mukhtar or khawarij. Assuming you have a doctor on hand, of course.
I know the Zhayedan is trash, they are close to being good though (only really their Marksmanship/breaker profiles though, the rest are... uninspiring), though that might be a discussion for another topic ;) Here's a trash-less list Ramah Taskforce ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 GHULAM (NCO) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16) GHULAM Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 15) GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) KHAWARIJ Lieutenant (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L1, Multispectral Visor L2) Mk12 / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) HORTLAK (Chain of Command) Submachine Gun, Blitzen / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 4 SWC | 200 Points Open in Infinity Army Rambo Lt, and I figure that the Hortlak opens up more avenues -figuratively, it's hard to compete with super jump in the literal sense-, it's nice to have a chain of command for when the Lt. bites the dust. Hortlak is a bit sturdier and up-close one of the best, if not the best, gunfighter we have. Which he just is, because that's what it reads: 1.5 SWC, 32 points of "spend me well"; the Link team has more bite; it can support in the reactive turn via a panzerfaust, flash pulse (can become a HFT Naffa as well) and sniper. Active turn it can still put down smoke. For the MSV to play with.
The durability issue is the main reason I'm shying away from using khawarij outside of the core team. I don't have experience with the solo hortlak, but I would be concerned by the SMG as the primary attack weapon on a model with no movement or deployment abilities.
I used the sniper variant and I really like it; Mimetism and MSV on a relatively durable platform is a good "gatekeeper", 36/0.5 also doesn't break the bank and the viral pistol gives him some bite up close. I suppose I could just downgrade to a Ghulam Lt. and not bother with CoC. Even so, the Khawarij COC has another leg up over the standard profile: Fatality L1 makes that rifle/shotty combo quite nasty. To be fair, the FO variant has that as well.
