Also, if you have the Pangguling, Haidao KHD and a TinBot in the Fireteam, you can move the Pangguling within 8" of an enemy Hacker, and if they want to attack the Haidao they need to deal with Firewall MODs as well, for -9 WIP and +3 BTS.
so? The Tinbot-B is on a Zuyong, meaning I can leave the KHD outside of the fireteam and use the repeater to kill enemy hackers, while at the same time being inmunne to enemy KHD in ARO (the enemy hacker would need to get inside the repeater range of my linked pangguling to attack my KHD... risking me having more KHD, so he would have one try only). My point is that you will very likely want to link the engineer instead of the KHD most of the time. And you will have more KHDs. But now that I revised the IA list, I think I've found why the automedikit is not so big of a bloat in this particular case... there is only ONE doctor in the whole list, and is a squishy specialist, unlinkable zanshi. So it has some sense to bring troops with automedikit, from the pure gaming sense. While for the Army it's cheaper to field two doctors than to pay the cost of an aotmedikit for every guy.... XD. as a core that will attack, or as a core that will stay on a point and defend? As for the Maestro, is a tricky thing, RAI I agree, RAW it can not be as clear. Again, something that obligues for an attacking core. KHD are the ones we worry here, and those ignore the Firewall. So, in the end: Krit has use as the linked engineer because the linked haidao will be the KHD. Tai Sheng will also be there, since she is the only NCO besides the Mowang... And a Tactical Sense HMG Zhuyong too. So 4/5 slots taken, and a hidden, camo'ed LtN2... half of the list is already defined, I'd say. Add the pangguling for extra hacking support and cheapen effect and there is only 1 composition for the Zhuyong Core on IA... Well, plus the Pangguling... Your choice is what will you leave outside: the Zhuyong HMG or the Pangguling... And this 6 guys are about 199pts.
If I want to play a defensive fireteam Core, I use zhanshis instead of Zuyongs. Otherwise the offence would be quite weak if you payed 170 - 200 points for a defensive team. You're also wasting orders if you don't use the TA/NCO orders for that team.
I had to look that word up to try and understand what you mean. I'm still kind of in the dark what you mean, but from my own experience as soon as your Zuyong are challenged by a hacker, the Panggolin is not enough (it'll just get Blackout/Oblivioned before your safe KHD can do anything). The Haidao KHD also has a Boarding Shotgun and, while a Zuyong profile also do, it is a very good tool to bring along giving you a template. Bottom line is, a Haidao KHD is an excellent addition to an aggressive Core.
I'd argue E-mauler either as minelayer or in your zuyong team is unique enough to justify taking him. Krit is a much better HI engineer than the haidao though. The haidao bring nothing else besides his engineering skill, and since HI engineer aren't that good to begin with because they can't engineer anything if they've been statufied by a well placed E/M grenade the few other things krit brings to the fireteam are important.
There is no doubt at all, we already discussed it this week. Maestro makes you enter Unconscious state 'or equivalent'. Entering Unconscious state is the activation clause for NWI.
I'd say you've missed a rather critical part of the core there: the TinBot. Thing's are pretty invaluable for agressive, or even defensive, HI cores. That same fact can be expanded into Vanilla, TBH. Yu Jing doesn't have many medical schools apparently. IA only has two KHDs: the Hac Tao, and the Haidao. And the Haidao is overwhelmingly more common, as the Hac Tao KHD costs over two times as much, on an AVA 1 unit with good competition for which profile to bring AND is generally so expensive he isn't going to be sharing lists with any Zuyong Cores, and at best a Haris ( Which would be the most logical case for both KHDs being in the same list. ). For Vanilla, I'd agree, we have more KHDs: Kanrens and Ninjas. But this is IA, not vanilla. TinBots affect the entire fireteam. So the fact that KHD Haidao is prancing around with a -6 MOD is what makes him amazing. And getting that extra firewall isn't an issue either: Daoying Hacker Lieutenants are able to provide that without any need for repeaters. And even if it's a KHD you're up against, the TinBot is still in effect, and that -6 makes a big difference. Personally I'd argue the Panguilling should be left for defensive links OR Zone Control missions ( But even then it is dubious since most other members of the core will have equal scoring power either way. ). The fact it's as big as it is makes it rather cumbersome to use in an aggressive link team IMO. If it's an aggressive core, the Panguilling was left outside already, and generally speaking, I'd argue the Feuerbach profile on Krit has the benefit of being a decent replacement for the Zuyong HMG in the core, since in all likelihood, there were multiples of them there anyways. But that's just me.
I still stand by my original opinion that the Feuerbach fits into a Zuyong core better than the E/Mauler, since fitting the Combi Krit in would, IMO, require to re-shuffle few profiles around: Fitting the Combi: Big standard Mk12 Sheng, KHD, Tinbot and 2x HMG core. The TinBot Zuyong is the easiest replacement here cost wise. But you still want a TinBot, so you take the Tai Sheng TinBot, and lose the Stun Nades and Mk12. The net gain becomes the E/Maulers, a third specialist and a second DTW. Net loss is in direct firepower firepower and the Tinbots TacAware order, and while Breaker Combis are nothing to sneeze at, that's still no Mk12 I'd argue, since while the burst is the same and the range bands don't differ too extremely, that 15 DAM won't always be made up for with the DAM13 Breaker ( Although VS Ariadna it will almost always make the difference where the targets really matter. T: ). Fitting the Feuerbach: Same core. Replacing one of the HMGs is easiest here I'd say. The net gain becomes a third specialist, a second DTW and the Feuerbachs armour punching capabilities. Net loss here is still the TacAware order, but the loss of firepower isn't as apparent here, since while we did lose an HMG for the Feurbach, the Feuerbach maintains the same rangebands whilst losing burst in exchange for the different ammo types. So I'd argue you lose less in the latter scenario and have a better overwall net gain, loss and gain considered. Those are just my two cents though.
But i don't care about the Feuerbach, I want E/maulers! ATM I'll probably roll with something like this: Invincible Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 TAI SHENG Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45) KRIT KOKRAM (AutomediKit) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, E/Maulers, yada yada. (0 | 39) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) ZÚYǑNG Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (2 | 36) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) 3.5 SWC | 184 Points Open in Infinity Army Losing one Tac Aw order and the MK12 on Taï sheng kinda hurts, but both the missile launcher and haidao KHD have done great things for me in the past so I have a hard time letting them go. The optimised way to play the link would probably be something like that: Invincible Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45) KRIT KOKRAM (AutomediKit) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, E/Maulers, yada yada. (0 | 39) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34) HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37) 3.5 SWC | 193 Points Open in Infinity Army
The link I listed, of about 200pts, is an offensive one. For a defensive one, the choices would be different, and there would be little need of a linked engineer. A fireteam that advances, and burns order in the Active turn. If a hacker wants to die to blackout/oblivion the pangguling, while the KHD kills him (reactive defense, obviously), its a win for IA. If the KHD pops out from camo/Hidden Deployment to isolate the Pangguling, well, he has more options, sure. But I have an Engineer side by side, who is also a HI... oh, wait XD I don't agree 100%, but it certainly helps a lot if he goes around with a Pangguling hand in hand... The question is why is he the only troop in a HI centered army with E-Maulers... he either is in breach of O-12 war normatives, or his army is unable to think about the best and cheapest way to disable heavy enemies. I fail to see how bringing more tools (paying full price for them) while having the same vulnerabilities (with slightly better resistance) makes your point here, frankly. I mean, I can have 2 haidao engineers in the table for 12pts more than Krit. A crit makes no such provision, however. It says to go to Unconscious. that one was inside already: HMG Zhuyong, Tinbot B Zhuyong (non-Haris), Zhuyong Character, Daoying Lt2 (non-hacker), Haidao :/ I agree there, AVA 1 on both vanilla and IA for doctors is quite underwhelming. ISS at least has the Sophotect too... Yup, but you have AVA 3 on Haidao. The potential for other hackers (Shang Ji AHD can be on the Fireteam... with BTS 6 and applying a -6 to attacking hacker, with the tinbot; or the Zencha with AVA4, or the Daoying, who has some merits as a hacker Lt2 despite the risk). There are options there, if not as optimal in points. Frankly, I see him as part of a Zhuyong Core only for filling purposes or because you need to reload Krit's E-Maulers... Otherwise, maybe on a Haris for control, as you say, since a 200pts Fireteam has little to no competition in that regard. Ffff.... Too expensive, frankly. Nearly 50pts for an ARO long range weapon... If we are there, I prefer a Tactical Sense Shang-Ji with Spitfire, that is cheaper and also gets an extra order. Tai Sheng gives no extra order, and with her Tinbot she loses 1 burst to get Breaker. It would be a "special snowflake" death star, each guy with a different weapon... with a cost in the other side of the galaxy: 217pts counting the cheapest Daoying for the Core and the Lt. IF the list was for 400pts, then yeah, the Feuerbach is a good investment because of the TAGs you are quite sure to face, assuming their screen will be so good you won't be able to reach them otherwise.
Didn't say it was bad though. Still an option, if not one I'd personally take. Firstly: O-12 are a buncha squeemish pansies. Secondly: This might be because on IAs release he was still unfinished, so might be the design ideas between IAs release and Krits release either don't match up or they just decided back then ''E/Maulers are too stronk for IA'' and didn't want to give them any except on an expensive AVA 1 unit. T: We're so bad at doctoring we have to look for outside sources of them, it seems. The potential for other hackers in IA is decent, yes ( Daoying LTs give effectively order free supportware, a Zhanshi hacker is cheap for supportware, EVO Hackers are arguably better here than in IS or Vanilla, since more Repeater bearing bots exist here, I don't feel a need to mention the Shang Ji AHD. ), but the topic in question was about KHDs specifically. Also, I wouldn't call the Zhencha a good Hacker by any margin: it's the most vulnerable HI Hacker in the game, in fact, since at least most of them can tank a Trinity hit, whilst the Zhencha snaps out of existance once that happens. The Zhenchas other profiles are pretty great, don't get me wrong, but the Hacker is just... expensive and flimsy. A rock hard pass, IMO. That adds another reason why I'd ever bring the Pango, come to think of it: reloading Krits Maulers. The Haris TinBot is the one that gives the extra order and is the one I assume to be more commonly taken ( He only costs 4 more points, after all. ). Plus she still allows orders from the LT to be funneled into the link. And she doesn't lose 1 Burst: Mk12 and Breaker Combis have the same burst. Plus if you were going into IA with the idea of running one of their premier and most recognizable assets, the Zuyong core, well... the cost is something to be be expected, it sure wasn't written in the fine print, after all. It's sorta like complaining that an HI core in MO is expensive: yeah, they're expensive, but you did sign up for that when looking into these armies, since that's par for the course here.
My point is that if your engineer probably won't be able to do any engineering because your opponent won't bother with E/M nades or agressive E/Marat / E/mauler if he can't get the engie first then this part of his profile is best considered as a bonus. And if your haidao engineer doesn't do any engineering, what does he bring to the fireteam? Pretty much nothing. Krit has E/maulers, a chain colt and packs some punch at close range with his 2 heavy pistols. In short, he is more than just a fancy engineer.
Some choices are just more optimal, however. Someone can enjoy playing 2W pain trains into order-intensive button-pushing missions, doesn't mean it's a good idea. Did your local ALEPH player place as high as the people whose lists he found "boring and unimaginative"?
As I've said on spanish forums, I think the good profile is the Combi+Emitter one. It brings so much the linkteam lacks that it may wotht the effort. Firstly is a relatively good midtable ARO piece. B2 of EM2 at 19s can cut out almost any enemy troop from keep on harassing you. The bigger the enemy, the better It'll result a success. Is a good piece for missions like hunting party, that require especial ammunitions. Is a good piece to defend narrow or small zones, like the central room missions like the armory Is a good piece to hunt heavy weights from the back like tags Can defend Objectives that need to be controlled if they're partially covered by sceno thanks to E/maulers, direct templates and courage It can take out bad states from allies. Behind a barrier or a ledge, and with a Nº2 on the linkteam it can be a safe active piece to attack without loosing command tokens in reforming the link. If he gets unconscious by bad luck, Nº2 triggers and you go prone, then a use of automedikit brings you back to consciousness and you're back on the team. It also has direct templates to perform intuitives against camos or smoking bitches With 2 heavy pistols is a somehow nice choice in short range against NWI troops like Aleph troops (special mirmidons, devas, posthumans,...) The Feuerbach option is, in my opinion, more suited for a static/defensive Zuyong+Remotes linkteam. It brings courage, an automedikit to go back to the link after falling unconscious if you bring a Nº2, and of course it has engineer to take back remotes. That defensive coreteam rounds up 126-130 points in comparison to the 165+ points of the aggressive one. Of course you need to rely on another spearhead to advance and kill, like Yanhuo Haris, Zuyong haris, Mowang ore any other Invincible option, Even LT profiles that are not the Daoying. I think it's not so bad a bit expensive (especially for invincible, but not so much). The main problem is that we already have too much competence on that niche. Zuyong ML, Shangji HRL, Yanhuo 2xML, Haidao Sniper... and it feels like more shit of the same kind. And somehow kills the TA mechanic that seems to be sensed as right way to play invincible. The option I sincerely don't see is the Forward deployment 1... It may be more oriented to vanilla remote lists or something
OK, you guys are cheating, hand-editing the 39pt Automedikit HMG into Krit's profile. I was getting very annoyed that I couldn't get my online version of Army to show his profile! Is it really? Given the tools we have, a lack of ANY smoke (whether basic, Nimbus, or Eclipse) seems to be a rather blatant designed-in weakness, in a list that has too many designed-in weaknesses. Designed for all the orders. Looking forward to it! I keep ending up with the engineer outside the link, to allow it to take helperbots. Might be useful to take Feuerbach Krit in there in place of the ML/HRL, though. Yeah, I think that last list is probably the way to go, though maybe with a Haidao KHD and Feuerbach Krit. The Mk12 does kinda replace a sniper rifle in terms of range bands and raw Dam15, after all.
The obvious question is of course who decides what is optimal and for what? one can have an optimal 2W paintrain for button pushing, but that is irrelevant, I think you do not get exactly what I am saying, different play styles dictate other things as "optimal" and give different value to stats, skills, equipment and load-outs, one side may see AD3+ troops only as "a walk by the table spitfires" as optimal and viable while the other side see them as always jumping BS order monkey killers or fast specialist for objectives. Everything, is subjective based on the play style and meta. Does it really matter? ELO placement has much to do with how active is the tournament scene and how high the scores of the players participating are, to relatively answer your question though, yes he is a really good player and can stand against top tier players easily as he did in the last interplanetario. Though no comment on his memory sometimes...
I think it's rather cool that Krit can do 12 of 20 classifieds himself (11 for the breaker combi version). Granted, he's not ideal for Predator, but he might manage with his fireteam buddies. The liu xing and hac tao assault hackers edge him out with 13 classifieds, though. Krit and a shang ji assault hacker together can do 17 classifieds. This team can do all 20. Team Classified ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 4 KRIT KOKRAM Feurbach, Chain Colt, D-Charges / 2 Heavy Pistols, Knife. (2 | 48) SHÀNG JÍ Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 43) HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37) ZÚYǑNG Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 29) 4 SWC | 157 Points
