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QK: Sekban - worth it?

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by kesharq, May 9, 2019.

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  1. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    the last games I played were Corregidor with a Wildcat/Lupe Balboa Core Fireteam- and they did very very good! BS13, FD L1, Spitfire, Specialists, decent armor, dirt cheap.

    As I want to play QK in the next games (started QK in N2 but haven't played them since N3, so I had to take a look at the avaiable profiles regarding all the recent changes) I looked through the profiles in army and came across Sekban Naval Special Unit.
    The profiles fit my expectations, slightly more expensive than Wildcats but I can fit up to 2 Hafzas, Leila Sharif and up to 2 Odalisques, making the fireteam very versatile and let's me fit some specialist in there, too. Negative effect of those included LI is, that I won't be able to fully use FD L1, just with the Sekbans.

    Here is what I came up with:

    Sekban Mixed Fireteam
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    SEKBAN Spitfire / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27)
    SEKBAN Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    HAFZA - will pose as another Sekban Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    ODALISQUE Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)

    1.5 SWC | 110 Points

    Any experiences with Sekban after Daedalus or in general? Any thoughts on this fireteam?
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I think that, as a CORE in QK, the Sekban are not the best option. As a Haris, however, and specially with an Odalisque, they can be really good for midfield control if needed.
     
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  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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  4. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Personally? I really like Sekban. I'd definitely consider running a HRL and Doctor+ with an Odalisque Spitfire and two Hafza. The HRL with 360 visor and BS 16 B2 is a powerful ARO piece for a pretty low cost.
     
  5. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    I haven't thought of the Sekban HRL as an ARO piece.

    Sekban Mixed Link w/ HRL
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    SEKBAN Heavy Rocket Launcher, Chain-colt / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
    SEKBAN Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt / Pistol, Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    ODALISQUE Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 30)
    HAFZA (Forward Observer) - acts as a Sekban Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    HAFZA[ - acts as a Sekban/b] Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

    2.5 SWC | 110 Points
     
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  6. ik3rian

    ik3rian Anti-Ariadnian Specialist

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    Sekbans are my fav fireteam in QK, mostly defensive haris with HRL and HRL Hafza, or full fireteam with Spitfire, HRL, Doc, Leila and Hafza LT. I love their looks and stats, sadly they usualy lose to the Djanbazans when we are considering MI links in QK.
     
  7. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Well, since I've been called up to the board...

    Sekban make for an excellent defensive / fire support Haris, in my opinion primarily with HRL as its center..

    As for Core - they are pretty resilient, but if you want an offensive Core of them, things are a mite complicated, I think.
    • Forward Deployment L1 is nice, but situational: delends a lot on the terrain available as Cover.
    • It does only partially offset the lower MOV value. This is a problem with every MI Core Fireteam, it applies just as well to the Djanbazan & Druze: if you want something done with them, you'l need to commit a lot of Orders to move them to the other side of the table. And don't exepct you'll be then able to really make them come back again. This affects your tactics and even list composition: if you pair a MI Fireteam with another Order hogs, you'll be very much Order-starved. So, be careful not to overspend your Order pool.
    • I think including Hafzas or Odalisques is rarely an optimal choice. Odalisques are a different troop entirely, but of similar point cost. Think what skill / equipment do they bring to this team: NWI? iKohl? With Hafzas, the argument for is the price - but Rifle Hafza saves oyu 4 points over a Shotgun Sekban (5 over AP Rifle Sekban), while sacrificing armor and BS. If you really need these 4-5 points elsewhere, sure, go for it. But if not, I see no point in watering the Sekban Core down.
     
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  8. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    I am seeing a lot of arguments for Sekban being a good defensive Haris option, but how is any defensive Haris supposed to deal with camo surprise shots without having SSL2 of Core fireteams?
     
  9. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Same as everyone else who don't have 6th Sense L2.
    FtF and tank it. If you have Cover, that's your ARM 3 + ARM 3 for Cover. Pretty decent.

    Surprise Shot in N3 is merely a -3 modifier to your FtF roll. It is not the "I shot first, you may shoot back if you survive" it was in 1 & 2ed. And with Sekban's BS 13, you can live with some negative mods. Yes, I know, they do stack. Yes, I know, it is down to dice luck.
    It always is...


    ...sorry, I guess I sound pretty unsympathetic right now.

    Let me try it once again, from point zero.
    Can a Sekban Haris - or any other Haris, that has no Sixth Sense L2 (like Odalisques for example) survive an attack from a Combat Camo's Surprise Shot?
    Yes, if dice are on your side. Same as always. This, after all, is Infinity, and everything can be killed by, almost, anything else.
    The bottom line being - Surprise Shot is just another stackable modifier. Just as Mimetism is. And range. And Cover. You'd need a MSV to get around the Mimetism / ODD / TO Camo modifier. You'd need 6th Sense L2 to get around Surprise Shot. Yuo'd need Marksmanship L2 to get around Cover. Naturally, you aren't going to have all of them - and even if oyu did, it still doesn't protect you agaisnt threats that aren't based on being Camouflaged attackers.

    Now, a defensive Sekban Haris as I see it is buildt around a HRL. That's a good weapon with plenty of range and a big nasty template effect. With 360-visor no one will get behind your back, so save for Smoke +MSV L2+ combo, no Camo Marker will shoot you unopposed.
    Once they declare the BS Attack, oyu sohuld've been already declared you wait & shoot back. Even with all the mods, you can't get below -12 nowadays (hitting - but critting - on 1s), and you'll have 2 shots for a full Haris. Unless, after having noted down the modifiers you decide it is more likely to succeed a Dodge.

    If you are good with your dice, and the opponent isn't a high-Burst-weapon-armed, that's pretty likely to be your 2 dice vs his 2-3 dice. You have a good chance of beating his rolls. Or at least some of them. And perhaps taking the remaining hits on your ARM. And your Cover.
    If, after the dice are rolled and accounted for, your Sekban is still standing tall, it means the opponent has wasted an Order, and dropped his Combat Camo (re-camouflaging will take an extra, Entire Order skill). Meaning you've won the confrontation.
    If not, well, that's Infinity.

    And that was the Combat Camo, of which your opponent has a limited number.
    With non-Camouflage troops, you can be pretty much blocking chokepoints and approach vectors with your long-ranged HRL. Few models can afford to ignore such a threat.
    Which again brings us to the problem of dislodging such a defender - your opponent can't, usually, allow themselves to leave a Sekban Haris doing their job. And this means expediture of enemy Orders to deal with the Sekban.
     
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  10. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    Thank you for a detailed explanation! I am getting where you're coming from now.
     
    #10 AssaultUnicorn, May 9, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  11. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    I see. :) I might be a bit overenthusiastic with my recent good experience with MI core fireteam. :)

    So, if you take a defensive Sekban Haris, what kind of offensive Core Fireteam do you use? Janissary plus Wildcards? Kaplans? Djanbazan?
     
  12. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

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    They also have chain colts. With a doctor plus in the haris, you can sacrifice one guy to drop two templates on a skirmishers surprising you. It does require keeping your opponent with 8 inches, so being careful to maneuver into tight quarters. But as far as haris teams go, I really like Sekban. In theory.
     
  13. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    My "no-brainer" list (i.e. one I'm using when I can't really think well...) has a Sekban Haris for defensive / fire support element, and Janissary Core as primary offensive element, plus al'Hawwa as a problem-solver (role that in my list is fulfilled by either a Camo Infiltrator,or AD of some kind), and a Shihab REM.

    Keep in mind the list's idea dates back to 2ed, and it is meant to be a single combat group list. It could be tweaked around with Wildcards and the like... I just never realy bothered with that.
     
  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    See below ;)

    The Odalisque has SS2 OR 360º, and a Spitifire for +3pts/-0.5SWC than the Sekban (or a Contender + SMG + Nanopulser for 22pts

    So you can make a Haris Sekban + Odalisque Spitfire + Sekban HRL for a defensive Fireteam, using the Odalisque as ARO. Or advance 'till midfield with the Contender Odalisque with SS2, using the Sekban as 360º turrets.

    That was my reasoning for the Odalisque, frankly ^^
     
  15. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    And it is a valid line of reasoning.

    Mind that, however, a Core of Sekban does have 6th Sense L2 as long as there are at least 4 models active in it, and 360-Visor all the time. So this part is rather a matter of personal taste than any real difference in advantages.

    Certainly having the variety of weapons (I mean access to SMG, primarily) is a good option to have, but for active short-range shooting (especially for room clearing) I prefer Boarding Shotguns. One Burst die less, but +6 at up to 8" really makes a difference for me - plus you have the option of using a Terminal Template shotgun blast, which is very, very valuable when you need to clean a number of models up close (way better than a Direct Template of the ChainColt or Odalisque's Nanopulser, unless there are massive to-hit penalties coming into play. Why way better? Because it gives you an option of having a FtF with your opponent, and good chances of winning it, rather than trading a hit for a hit with DTWs).
    Which is why my Sekban Cores tend to include a dedicated Shotgunner (in addition to the Doc).

    Now, Odalisques have NWI, but Sekban have BTS (and slightly better Armor). So it is still a situational advantage.

    As for SWC difference for the Spitfire, keep in mind Sekban are a mite better shots (+1 BS). When on active turn, this means it is applied 5 times in a Burst - IMO well worth that extra 0.5 SWC, but that's again a personal opinion.
     
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  16. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Sure, but a Sekban CORE means no other CORE, which means no option for a linked HMG Janissary with an Akbar doctor Janissary, and up to 2 Odalisques and 2 Hafzas in the link to cheapen it while giving it extras at the same time.

    Or the MSV-2 HMG of a Djanbanzan + a medic Plus + up to 2 odalisques and 2 Hafzas.

    Or the 4 Engineers + 1 Doctor KAPLAN core so good for Hunting Party XD

    I won't bring the Jammer Hafza Specops because if allowed it can be on either, anyway xD.

    Let's agree there are too many awesome cores in QK, but sotto voce lest CB decides to nerf us XDDDD
     
    #16 xagroth, May 13, 2019
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  17. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    I find myself in the same spot as @xagroth - too many awesome choices!! :) Seems that I will have to give each Core Link a try to figure out the best for my style....
     
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  18. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Uhh... unless you're talking about the Kaplan (who indeed have linkable Engineers in QK - but can't be mixed with Hafzas or Odalisques), I have no idea what you have in mind there.

    As for watering down expensive fireteams with Hafzas and / or Odalisques (who, actually, aren't all that cheap), I find it to be highly situational. The pro is you can:
    • build a team cheaper, especially with Hafzas
    • equip a team with inexpensive Specialist (Hafza FO)
    • equip a team with support weapon, especially in case of the Hafza HRL (hidden, long-ranged Terminal Template weapon). Note that i wouldn't consider Odalisque Spitfire to be particularly inexpensive choice.
    • equip a team with DTW or some other weapons they might lack (especially the Odalisque SMG, thouigh I guess for some missions the Anti-material trait of the Contender might be useful)
    The con?
    • At ARM 2 & BTS 0 both Hafzas and Odalisques are more fragile than anything else they can link with, save for Ghilim. Compared to Djanbazan & Janissaries, they also lack Shock Immunity. Which makes them the weak link of the Fireteam - models your opponent will try to target as early in the game as possible, since they are the softest elemnts of the fireteam, and therefore easiest to elliminate.
    What might be interesting to try - and IMO is going to really shine in low-points games - is adding an Odalisque or two (but definitely the Spitfire one!) to a Ghulam Fireteam, and using it offensively. This gives you an inexpensive fireteam with a strong leading model that can punch well above the Ghualm's own weight, and who can tank a hit if necessary.
     
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  19. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Yeah, that one, sorry ^^U (edited post to indicate which core)

    Yeah, Hafza FO... + Hafza Specops with Jammer if Specops is an included extra (Jammer Burst 2 + WIP 17 you can improve to 18... or give it a 2nd wound with the jammer XD). The Odalisques provide the Contender & SMG in the cheapest platform (so can do ARO, or use Shock/AP ammo) and you can place 2 of them (9 pts cheaper than the BSG Janissary).

    My point is less about being a scrooge with the points, and more about all the options that brings to the table. Sure, the Odalisque is more fragile than a Janissary, but it's NWI so the Akbar Doctor can patch her up at 18 and have a rerroll, instead of trying for 15 for 2 wounds with no rerroll, and you can cheap by 22 pts by making an HMG+BSG+Kaplan Janissary with 1 hafza and 1 Odalisque.
     
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  20. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    You meant Janissary Doc...?

    Well, sure you can. The thing is...
    • the Janissary has ARM 4 BTS 3 and 2 Wounds.
    • Odalisque has ARM 2, BTS 0, 1 Wound + NWI.
    • Hafza has ARM 2, BTS 0 and 1 Wound.
    One hit, and the Janissary has 10% better chance of making the ARM roll.
    If it goes through, the Hafza is down, the Odalisque is on her NWI, the Janissary still has one more Wound.
    If it was Shock Ammo (way more common now than back in the 2ed), the Hafza is dead, the Odalisque is dead, the Janissary... is still having a Wound to lose.
     
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