@Robock I realize that didn't really comment on using the skill Booty a second time. You're right, there's no rule that says I can't specifically use that skill additional times. The point I'm making is about these assumptions we're being asked to make. All players are already making the assumption these deployment skills are only used once. Booty then works fine this way because it says to only roll once. Minelayer doesn't say that. I completely understand you think the assumption is obvious, but again it's still an assumption. And when we see other rules specifically staing to be used once, it's not unreasonable to think maybe this can be used more than once.
It takes an amazing amount of stubbornness to argue against three examples, and someone pointing out that the whole rule is written in the singular. It’s okay if you don’t like how the rules are written. It’s not okay to be a jerk about it.
not once per deployment phase. it says once that is all. you assume it means once per trooper per deployment phase, but it could mean once per skill use. The same way that minelayer place 1 piece of equipment, which you want us to believe is 1 per skill use and allowed to use it several time (without spending order, this is deployment phase afterall). But for booty you think we cannot use the skill several consecutive times ? edit : nevermind, saw your response.
No, I want you to show me where the rule states only one mine can be placed. I don't want to know how you assume the rule works. A rule explaining how something functions while making that explanation in the singular, IS NOT THE SAME as a rule telling us only one can be placed in total.
Why do you feel the need to call me a jerk about this? I pointed something out that none of you have been able to refute, even though there have been several attempts. I'm perfectly within my rights to respond to those attempts with facts and reasoning. But yet again, I'm called a name or insulted because I have an opinion you seem not to like. Or is it because I make valid points that make it difficult for some of you to defend the rules as obvious, easy to follow, and without holes?
First, I gotta say it makes sense that it's singular. Second, I'm with @Ginrei in that the rule actually does not say that a player can't use this skill more than once. Third, to me it does not say I can't deploy a mine and a repeater. Fourth, I know there have been plenty of examples in this thread about the use of singular words and not plural ones. But to me it still does not answer my question. Hence I came to you awesome people for help. Sometimes, I just don't understand the wording and would have written the rules differently. Please don't say I'm arguing because I am not. I'm just pointing out where I'm coming form. For reference the actual Minelayer rule from the wiki. Any enemy Camouflage and Hiding Marker cannot be inside the Trigger Area of the Deployable Weapon or piece of Equipment when it is deployed. The deployment of the Deployable Weapon or piece of Equipment must follow the Deployment general conditions. EFFECTS In the Deployment Phase, this Special Skill allows to its user to place the Deployable Weapon or piece of Equipment inside his Zone of Control. If the Deployable Weapon or piece of Equipment has the Disposable Trait, then it will be subtracted from the total of available uses. If the user of this Special Skill deploys using any level of the Infiltration Special Skill, and fails the PH Roll, then in addition to the effects shown in the Infiltration Special Skill rule text, the Minelayer will lose the Deployable Weapon or piece of Equipment, subtracting it from the total of available uses if it has the Disposable Trait. For anyone that is going to say that a player can't use this skill more than once please link me the reference to that rule.
I agree that the skill allows for a one-time, singular placement of a piece of deployable equipment. I also agree that the rule's wording does not make a strong distinction that it should be a one-time, singular placement.
I'm just wondering how you can make the leap that you can deploy a model more than once. The trigger for minelayer is the deployment of the model with the skill. Turns out you can't deploy a model more than once during the deployment phase.
Please stop personal attacks. On topic as answered it is for one mine, if it is confusing we may see if we can or need to fix it in the future.
First of all, are we really even considering that a skill can be "activated" as many times as you'd like just because it doesn't say you have to stop at some point? Sure... I'll just roll PH-3 until my Ninja succeeds... Second of all, Minelayer is a deployment skill, its activation is by deploying the model, if you want to activate it more times you have to deploy the model several times, and nothing actually allows you to redeploy a model.
I played a game last night and my opponent thought that the skilled could be used for as many mines as there where uses. I couldn't point at the rules and say "well it says here...." so we played it that he could deploy more than 1. I read the minelayer entry and was leaning towards 1 use but it I could not argue with what was in writing. How I look at this the trigger is not deploying the unit. The trigger happens when you are in the deployment phase. In the Deployment Phase, this Special Skill allows to its user to place the Deployable Weapon or piece of Equipment inside his Zone of Control. According to this line I can place the model with minelayer then place the rest of my troops then place the deployable weapon/equiment last if I want. The only "time" or trigger for placing the item is during the deployment phase.
You're seriously arguing that Decoy and Holo2 can be placed on the table basically anytime during the deployment phase? Are you also arguing that by activating Infiltration at such an "any time" timing you can re-deploy your skirmisher? How about Sapper? There is such a thing as something being absurd, and you two have managed to argue that the absurd should be allowed.
I honestly can't believe how much the statements being made in this thread(forum) get ignored. He didn't argue any of those things, nor did I. We've said many many times now, the rules don't say you can't. Because the rules don't tell us the basic information we require to use these skills. And as @Azuset points out, when the opponent claims they can, we can't point to a rule to specifically say they can't. I suppose we could argue with them, or take however much time is needed to convince them otherwise, but these things interrupt and hurt the experience of playing a fun game.
Does calling this absurd change the fact that this was played incorrectly* as @Azuset says? *not as this forum agrees it should be played There are many Infinity players not on these forums. Do you think everyone who plays Infinity comes to the same conclusions you and this community does? Some open mindedness would go a long way IMO. How many times do players need to play it incorrectly before it's the rules fault and not the players being absurd? No one has to admit it's a huge problem or the world is ending. But a, 'Hmmm... strange, the rule doesn't specify these important details. We've all just intuitively played it as one. It shouldn't affect too many players though, so it's not really a priority fix. But an improvement wouldn't hurt.', would be nice. I almost want to say this forum would benefit from a little compassion or empathy, but I'm sure I'll just be attacked for one reason or another instead.
@Mahtamori I agree with you. This is absurd. I personally have never played a game where I have had to spend this amount of time asking for help on forums. I have also said it makes sense that it should be played as 1 item being deployed. That is common sense to me. However, my interpretation of some of these rules and me applying common sense to them has my interpretation in error from time to time. To be clear I am not arguing that it's 1 item total for minelayer. What I am asking is for someone to show me in the rules where it says that. For me and my situation I will be the one teaching players in my area how to play the game. At the end of the day all I am really trying to do is be able to know the correct rules and be able to teach them to another human being. I am very grateful for all of the support and help I get from the people here.
For Holo 2 it says This piece of Equipment allows its bearer to deploy in the Holoecho state when he is placed on the table. The way I read this is that is specifically says "in the Holoecho state" when being deployed. I would not argue to deploy those models/markers separately.
Same for Decoy "This Special Skill allows its user to deploy in the Decoy state when he is placed on the table." "deploy in the Decoy state"
I think the important thing to consider here is that a unit/trooper does not have a disposable value. If it did I think someone would inevitably ask that question.
Yes, realizing something is absurd should clue you in which of two possible interpretations is the most valid interpretation. This is fairly basic communication.
