So I am new to infinity and new to the local game store Currently we are in an escalation league meeting new people and learning the basics and its taken me at least a year and half to work up the courage to go out and play this game and meet folk on the account of my adhd it makes meeting people and social interaction difficult at times sometimes i have too much confidence sometimes too little Now I have had a few games with this person where the same thing happens They roll in the corner of a table under a strategically placed book or pick up the dice quickly before i can see them,I then spent 6 orders and 6 hits by aro trying to kill one of his units where they apparently crit 4 times in a row on a ftf roll or passed all armours saves about 10 or so in total I got a bit suspicious of this and walked over to where he was rolling to watch on my 7th order and he rolled a crit but he said wait that's a crit checked army to verify yup a 10 would be a crit and I said wait if you just crit so many times wouldn't you know this already? Then on a save they had to make I see the dice roll a 5 and i said "Pheww i really need that" looked away and look back and see a cheeky finger tap the dice over to roll a 15 "15 saves me" I said "are you sure that wasn't a 5 there" with the dice having magically moved somewhere else the rest of the game I stood very close to them and the game returned to my favour after that but it came down to me winning by like 5points (escalation so it was just kills) Its very frustrating in an environment that should be all about learning the game I Spoke to two other folks I can trust at this new place but didn't mention any names as the person there is also a local I think but they haven't played him or noticed anything yet Only played this person twice so i could be wrong but this behaviour occurred in each game and the same patter of picking up dice or stopping them from rolling How would you handle the situation I feel like I'm too new there to just openly accuse people of things I cant prove and from someone who is new there i feel like most folks would just think less of me? I could just not play them but infinity is only just starting there so there isn't many other players, My plan is just to ask to roll dice where i can see them but placing a dice tower in the middle of the field isn't the best option in a terrain heavy game haha Its an awkward situation for me to be in
I feel your frustration. The thing is, just break the ice about this as such a person will never behave on his own initiative, I learnt this by playing 40k for many years where this was a much bigger issue in my experience. Mostly if such an occurence happens, I aks them as politely as possible (but with a serious tone) to roll on a location where I can see the dice. This has to be done mutually, as sportsmanship and good player conduct is a big and intregral part of the game as the core rules and sharing open information, such as dice rolls, is key to a smooth and healthy game.
@Pander22 my sympathies for your issues with social confidence; I have Tourette's myself, and find normal interactions can be quite problematised. People take offence despite their best intentions, and overall, it's not nearly as funny as South Park's Cartman made it seem. Although Tourette's is essentially unfixable, whereas ADD does generally submit to occupational therapy etc. they're both often placed on the Autistic Spectrum, which goes some way to explaining why cheating and abuse can feel so hard to people with these conditions. Because willful cheating breaks the imperative structures of social behaviour, and things like careless undermine interpersonal trust. What I know is that often seem to know that someone's cheating long before I properly understand how they're doing it, and that would be difficult for anyone to express. There are good reasons why this stuff can be hard, but to be a little less academic about it: this shit absolutely kills me, and I've long been interested in trying to ring-fence cheating fucks! My solution is to develop etiquettes and house rules for good behaviour, and to use them myself. That provides welcome structure to potentially fraught situations in games, and a solid social basis for inviting the other person to do likewise. For example, dice rolls: Provide a decent box to roll in; tell them I'll roll in that, and that I'll re-roll any dice bouncing out Demonstrate how I'll tap the box to fix a cocked dice, but in the event, invite them to do the tapping Ask if they'd like to roll together, and tell them I don't mind if their rolls change my results ('petanque style') I have a bunch of these, for measuring distances, deployment, and so forth, and they all amount to the same thing. Work out how to do the thing fairly, with care, and to your opponents' satisfaction, then do it yourself. At worst you've played the gentleman, at best you've a platform for inviting them to do the same.
We developed this one last year, and it led to a season of merry attempts to change one another's rolls. In one memorable face to face, I'd rolled a Critical and two misses; my buddy Mike gleefully rolled his dice attempting to eliminate the Critical, but ended up with TWO Criticals and another hit. Honi soit qui mal y pense
Thanks very much for these tips guys, I think in my head I knew all this I just generate a more complex social puzzle for myself Definitely need to try this box and knock away crits seems like a game within its self haha!
I'd just stop playing with the guy. That's straight cheating and 1. I don't want to play with someone who disrespects me enough to do that, and 2. if he's cheating at dice rolls I'd probably have to verify every single little thing like written TO deployment/Sabotage target/etc., check if models don't change their position when not activated/reacting, classified cards aren't swapped, etc. etc., which together is a massive hassle and sucks fun out of the game. I'd rather take the effort to introduce 5 new players to the game than try to wean a cheater off playing dirty.
We had a player in our meta with a cheating problem, which was a shame because he was more than strong enough to play on his own merits. I got him to stop cheating against me by calling him out constantly about his dice and quizzing him over and over about order counts, but he kept it up against people who weren't as vigilant. One day, he was up to his usual bullshit and the fellow he is playing decides he has fucking had it and cussed him out in front of everyone. Our cheater wrote a letter to apologize, was forgiven, and has been clean and sober since. Long story short, confront that stuff and deal with it. Infinity requires too much trust to tolerate cheating.
The 'least confrontational' method is to simply stop playing him. If you still want to be able to play him (say, tournaments), use a dice box, any die leaving the box gets re-rolled, and both players watch the rolls from release until it stops moving. If you didn't see the die roll, it didn't happen. That's honestly just good practice anyway, keeps dice from hitting minis and terrain. And obviously the most extreme is to blow up at him and call him on his crap in public.
Fellow person on the spectrum (Aspie, ADD) here, hi! :) At bare minimum I'd request an improvised dice tray and state that he cannot pick dice up before you've seen results. If he agrees, that's entry requirement for playing him. If he refuses, do not play with him anymore and publicly warn other players. Don't claim outright he's cheating, just straight up say "I won't be playing Mike again, he rolls dice where I can't see them and immediately picks them up. I just can't see the results and it's no fun". Let them figure out on their own what's wrong with this behaviour, you will avoid the stigma of an accuser.
First of all, keep repeating yourself "it's just a game". That gives a lot of meaning, "it has to be fun" being the first, and "I can play it... or not" the second. So I agree with Section9 that the best way is to not play with him. If you get asked, the best answer is "I can't learn to play the game with him, he is so lucky the dice solve it all", and let the ones hearing it to get the meaning they want to. Because, seriously, when the dice decide to roll one way or another, there is no game, and this happens (not all the time, of course, but it can happen). Also, sparring with more people is important. You can always learn something new by facing other people (and armies). So look at it this way: if the guy cheats against you, he probably cheats everytime he can, meaning he doesn't know how to face problems, how to think, or how to enjoy! Yes, it sucks to be told "be positive", but sometimes it needs to be said, and more importantly: you are not obligued to suffer this kind of situation. Play with others, but play, because stopping makes starting again so much difficult. And enjoy whatever you prefer of the game (for me, it's listbuilding and the tactics, for others the looks of the models, for others the backstory of their faction... your models, your game!)
I had a situation slightly like this before. Played some dude from out of town and he would roll behind a building and instantly pick up the dice. After the first 3 orders without a single failed arm roll out of about 10 I told him "Hey bud, you mind rolling in the open? I like to see what's going on" and he got really defensive, but i eventually convinced him to roll on an open rooftop. Didn't pass a single ARM save for the rest of the game and never came by again. I understand it can be difficult to speak up because of social pressure and sometimes mental health, so if you are bothered by something the other person is doing, you can always just speak to someone in the group you trust and they will most likely help you out. Nobody likes a cheat.
+1 with what is said above. I'm sorry for you if you have difficulty to go out and meet other people that you just ran into that kind of jerk. They probably don't help you willing to go out and chill with others. If you can avoid to play with that guy on your regular fun play, just don't play with him. If you have to because it's a league, or tournament, or he just happen to be the only person available, you could ask him to roll the dices in a box where everybody can see it, take picture of where TO are, show me his order pool (put the order on top a building and remove them for exemple). If he ask why just tell him we advised you to do so because "it's good manner you know". Hope you can have good experience playing the game in the future.
Oh, one of the things we do is to count stat MODS and say your target number out loud. So, "OK, I'm BS13, +3 for range, -3 for cover, -6 for TO, needing 7s to hit." "I dodge on 12."
Nicely said. When playing against unfamiliar players, I think it’s very presumptive to roll without declaring the target numbers. Good manners should be to show your working until your opponent’s assured you they don’t need the courtesy. On the subject of calculations and targets, does anyone use the method CB describe in N3 (which doesn’t provide a target number in advance)?
I tend to do that, partly because I'm used to "count speaking", and partly because most of the time I'm running the numbers on autopilot and want a sanity check from my opponent (more or less once per game I fail one or two). Mind you, some people don't want me to do that, it bothers them, so I either check beforehand or try to do it silently if he complains.
We do all of those... We announce the target score (if it not the first similar roll we do not count up MODs every time) We roll in a box but we don't knock away dice! If a dice is stable, that is the result. If it is crooked, reroll no matter what. If the opponent hits a die with his one, it goes back to the confirmed result.
Wow so much support and help here, Not played the guy in a while just been playing some other guys who don't mind explaining rules and going through mods with me very helpful people, I was speaking to the manager of the place and he was making some jokes about the guy in question coming in early setting up the board premeasuring all the fire lanes etc so hopefully its well known by everyone. Apologies on the late reply I didn't actually see these come in!
