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Discussion in 'Miniatures' started by Lieutenant, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I think most of the shading and highlighting gets done with the airbrush, actually, but yeah, the final result is from hairbrushes.
     
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  2. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    You can also do a crude version that starts with spray cans. General dark coat, then directional lighter one(s), that should at least help with where to place the colours, depending on how dusty you get (smooth will mean you can under transparent coats, dusty look means you better cover it and just use as guide). Look up zenithal priming for a general idea. AG does it too, but airbrush.
     
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  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yup!

    I'm pretty sure it was @Magno who zenithal-primed orange from above and purple from below to start his shadows, and ran with very, very thin 'juices' of color, so you don't have to restrict yourself to black and white priming.

    Another version of pre-shading priming (which I shamelessly swiped from Savonarola, who doesn't post on this version of the forum) is to prime white and then wash the entire model with black. Heavy wash, too, dark enough to make shadows, not just show you where all the lines are between the different pieces.
     
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  4. paloji

    paloji Well-Known Member

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    Everything can be done with hairbrush, it just take more time and skill. The airbrush is not magic, it is not an autopaint tool, it is just one tool more to use, and as any tool needs practice to master it.

    If you are starting to paint, is good the have a high reference as Giraldez, but don´t try to copy and get the same results as him, you need time to practice. Just try that your next mini is better than the latest one, and improve step by step, little by little. You need to learn to walk before learn to run ;)

    Also there is not a "tecnic behind" to achieve that results...similar results can be don throught really different ways.
     
  5. Forté

    Forté Well-Known Member

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    The thing is the painting that took you 8-12 hours exclusively with a natural brush, Angle will likely do in 2-3 hours by using both types of brushes at his disposal (and a hairdryer to speed things up). You'll also find that it's possible to do way more with an airbrush than you seem to think (I've seen the eyes on a bust airbrushed for example.

    However; there is no substitute for practice and never forget that painting miniatures is Angel's job and he likely does at least 8 hours a day. Plus he's been painting Infinity for years now so has his formulas for doing different things. Also don't forget that he is painting box art and display miniatures. Not gaming.

    Don't worry so much about perfect blends. Highlights always look more blended at arms length or on the gaming table anyway.
     
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  6. DrunkCorsair

    DrunkCorsair Well-Known Member

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    If you look at AGs books and social media, blog etc. you will see his way of painting.
    For Infinity its mostly a simplified form of grisaille technik (not sure if i write it correct).
    If you work with that technic regardless of brush or airbrush you start with doing your light situation on that miniature in black and white and then add transparent colors for the rest.
    This has the benefit that you dont need to mix colors for highlights and shadows as you do everything with black and white mixes.
    You can even add wethering etc. before you start with colors.
    This technic can even be used for tanks etc. and i have seen boardgames with 100+ miniatures done pretty fast (with an airbrush).

    If you use an airbrush it ispretty simple and easy to get controlled highlights.
    I made an example for a german forum for easy tabletop pre-shading its using an airbrush and a GW miniature but i think it shows a bit how to apply that technik.

    Here is the pre shading done:
    [​IMG]

    The steps to this stage have been pretty simple:
    1. Primer Dark Grey (not Black as it saves us spraying the miniature Dark Grey again)
    2. Airbrush 2 Highlights with Middle Grey and Light Grey
    3. Drybrush White for top highlights (you can do it more controlled but drybrush worked better for the armour)
    4. Wash with Black for a more dirty look and deepest shadows in the recesses

    [​IMG]

    Just one transparent coat of light blue.
    Now you could do some highlights again and glaze a darker blue into the shadows etc.

    I hope the pictures showed how that technik can work.
     
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  7. Forté

    Forté Well-Known Member

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    Angel really doesn't use the grisaille method. Grisaille is essentially a grey scale painting done with the purpose of adding colour over the top. It is also a very old 2D technique that has been in use for many years (like painting metal with non metallics).

    Angel does multi colour/zenithal priming where you start with black and then spray lighter colours at an angle from above. This helps you to see the details on a miniature better plus gives Angel a starting point for his style of non metallics.

    If you really want to see grisaille being used I highly recommend looking at painters like Alfonso 'Banshee' Giraldes and Roman Grruba.

    If you are really looking at improving your painting knowledge then I highly recommend researching the following (which can all be found online for free):
    • value contrast (difference between light and dark. There's many types of contrast so value is important)
    • volumes in painting
    • brush control
    Angel has started a YouTube channel too showing some techniques. They're all in Spanish but subtitled well. But there's also loads of other information out there which will give you tips (even Warhammer TV). I highly recommend the channel of Tommie Soule as he talks about getting the basics right. Fundamentals as he calls them. Paint consistency, good clean basecoats, using the right size brush, and good brush strokes.

    Most importantly with miniature painting though (and others have mentioned this too):
    Do not compare your own painting to a studio/career painters work!
    That will just drive you crazy and hold you back from enjoying the process of painting. And painting should be enjoyable whether for gaming, display, or competition.
     
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  8. Forté

    Forté Well-Known Member

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    Here's an example of a grisaille in early stages by Alfonso.
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. DrunkCorsair

    DrunkCorsair Well-Known Member

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    @Forté
    I dont want to argue specifics. An underpainting in that style is called grisaille to, so it doesnt have to end black and white.
    As i go by AGs books he starts priming black and his first steps is adding white highlights. E´ven if you do it with rattlecans it could be called a grisaille.
    Thats why i said simplified grisaille technik.
     
  10. Forté

    Forté Well-Known Member

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    Believe me, it's not. There is a huge difference between 2 or 3 colour/ part priming and creating a grisaille. Grisaille is much more involved and means studying the light and values within painting. Priming with a few lighter values (which can also be done with colour too. Doesn't have to be grey and white) is a quick way to show highlights and pre shading.
     
  11. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    no in miniature grisaille technique is just to paint on a greyscale shading instead of green for the skin or any other opposite color for colors
    and also no you can't paint my miniature I've shown with an airbrush that stupid, surrly not in 3h xD
    airbrush required cleaning between colors and it's useful only for big minis or pre shading and painting infinity eyes with an airbrush ? You've clearly have no idea about what your talking about xD

    airbrush painting techniques are only for painting fast it's not for quality, Giraldez is far from being the best painter of the world but he might the fastest with crazy good quality/time ratio !
    if you want quality you need time, blending, blazing and absolutely no airbrushes
    look at great painter of this forum like: Nathelis https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/nathelis-paints-iss-tjc-terrain.3403/page-13
    or "The meth of the cooking art" https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/the-meth-of-cooking-art.1841/page-3

    so stop the propaganda about airbrushes
     
  12. DrunkCorsair

    DrunkCorsair Well-Known Member

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    Thats your opinion, not that of everyone.
    I wont say anything more on that topic.
     
  13. Forté

    Forté Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say "Infinity eyes with an airbrush". You obviously do not know who Pepa Saavedra is and how she paints busts with air brushes. Or the detail that painters like Chris Clayton achieve with airbrushes. They are precise tools.

    As for cleaning between colours. That can be done quickly but you also find many career painters have two or three lined up.

    And yes; I fully believe my statement that Angel could paint the mini you painted to that standard within 3 hours. Especially after seeing what Alfonso Giraldes can do on a bust in two hours. Some of these painters are ridiculously good and fast too. But that comes through practice, persistence, and knowing your materials (paints, tools, and miniatures).

    But please feel free to dismiss anything I say because I obviously have no idea at all what I am talking about.
     
  14. jherazob

    jherazob Well-Known Member

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    Relevant:
     
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  15. Forté

    Forté Well-Known Member

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    Yes, yes, yes. And again yes.
     
  16. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    This.

    So much this.
     
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  17. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    O this topic is alive ?
    Using Airbrush Helps with mastering Airbrush
    Using Brushes Helps at tech involving Brushes
    Without actualy getting to painting you will not learn anything without practice. (unless you make pact with Dark gods offer them soul ? goat ? sister ? and get a gift of awesome painting for horrible price ;) )
    The bigger surface the better Airbrush work on it - ye s it is a tech that save a lot of time - unless you need a textured surface then Airbrush is a worst tool you can get (unless you go for snow/ grain ;) )
    About Grisele / Gazele /.?? Geyzer ?? the greyscale tech / dead undercoating ect ..
    - it just speed up the process it have a lot to do with imperfection in pigments and an specyfic way human eye and brain interprets color surfaces that actualy make shading or adjusting contrast on certain colours very difficult when on green / blue or just grey completly easy.
    About A.Giraldes - he is good at what he is doing he is nod doing a peaces to win Painting contest he is painting Box art minis thous are 2 different things
    o and thous are deffinitly a brush strokes ;)
    https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=9b191558cbd438d32fdb6fa0cb92063a&oe=5D2EB3CC
     
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  18. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    is that an infinity mini ? xD
     
  19. maru

    maru Well-Known Member

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    nop A Aristeia mini this special one metal Robot
     
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