i guess that makes sense. just sort of weird. i think they should prolly reexamine that ruling, because this is a hella buff for makauls.
Yeah, that's never been possible with multiple active troopers. It doesn't matter if it's a Fireteam, Coordinated Order, Antipodes, G: Synch etc. See the FAQ for G: Synch: Q: An Auxilia and his Auxbot declares Move as first Short Skill of his Order. A Celestial Guard who only has LoF against Auxbot decide not to declare any ARO. With the second Short Skill, the Auxilia and Auxbot Move again, so that the Auxilia is now within the LoF with the Celestial Guard. Could the Celestial Guard declare an ARO against Auxilia now? A: No, because the Auxilia and the Auxbot generated a single ARO as they possess the G: Synchronized Special Skill. Therefore, as the Celestial Guard has decided not to declare his ARO after the first Short Skill, he has lost the ability to declare any ORA against that Order.
From the other thread. Is Reset even an option through a Repeater before being targeted by an attack? Repeaters don't give you increased ZoC for general purposes, only for Hacking.
You would have to move a second hackable unit into range of the Repeater without using Stealth, ideally one that does not matter - such as someone with Comms Equipment they don't need. Then Mary has to ARO the hackable unit (or Reset), leaving the Stealthed hacker free to attack her without worrying about her frightening programs.
Yes. Celestial Guard Kuang Shi Control Device is Comms Equipment and emminently linkable with Cranes.
Also, because this became very relevant: Unit A is touching a Smoke template. Crane C is in melee with A and in a Fireteam with Celestial Guard G. G and C declares Move. I can't find anything which says A actually gains LOF from being Engaged to C - only that you gain 360 vision. Both Move and Idle are Short Movement skills so the Crane should not be forced to relinquish Stealth. Will A be forced to declare ZoC AROs?
If i'm reading your post correctly A punches C in the face. Edit: Oh are you asking if engaged gives the lof necessary to negate stealth? Presumably if the answer were no two troops engaged in smoke couldn't see to attack one another regardless of stealth.
i don't follow. You seem to be saying that when in base contact, you don't get LoF, so if you are in smoke and the enemy activates (and Idle) in CC, you cannot see him, thus unable to declare LoF ARO such as CC Attacks and can only declare ZoC ARO. There is no need to involve stealth here. Stealth does apply, if you declare an SMS (like Idle) outside the enemy LoF. But you are in his LoF. Otherwise any model without MSV2 would be unable to CC ARO in smoke (edit: further reading, CC as an ARO is not mentioned to be a ZoC ARO or a LoF ARO, as the skill doesn't need LoF, it only needs base contact).
The issue is that since the Crane is using Stealth and is not in LOF, the Crane does not generate any ARO, meaning you're not allowed to target the crane with CC Attack. This leads to certain unit combinations able to continuously be able to generate normal roll CC attacks by forcing your opponent to declare Reset. In most cases this is not mathematically an issue because against a Tanko or Crane the unit has next to no chance anyway, but 5-6% can sometimes happen. However, it goes bananas when you consider that Achilles or Sinobu does not have MSV2 nor 6S and it would not normally be possible for a Crane to take those particular two on (which, by the way, is nuts considering how very close in skill level a Crane is to those two, but in spite of having active turn advantage the Crane is still 55% at risk vs Achilles and only 25% chance when melee - not the case when shooting, in spite of Achilles having significantly better equipment for ranged combat comparatively. Different topic, though.)
Found this on the wiki and I believe this prevents your scenario from occurring: It's in the section on LoF with CC. http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Line_of_Fire_(LoF) "Figures engaged in CC can draw a 360˚ LoF, but only to whatever they are in base contact with." That says to me they can draw LoF to any model they're in base to base with and that should be enough to stop stealth from triggering.
Yes, and Zero Vis Zone says you can't draw LoF. So it becomes a question of which rule is more specific.
@Robock If Zero Vis trumps CC LoF then wouldn't that also mean that troopers engaged in CC in Zero Viz zones can't declare Dodge? Dodge requires LoF and there's no provision in the Zero Vis rules that explicitly allow you to dodge if attacked by CC, only by BS.
Just to add a bit of addendum as to why this is bad with hacking: I have a Unidron and an Umbra Legate HD+ (who has stealth) in a fireteam together. I declare short skill move in the hacking area (but not ZoC) of an enemy basic hacker. Their *only* aro option at this point is to try to throw a Gotcha! at the Unidron; despite what the FAQ says, Reset is not an option at this time. So now, with his second short skill, my Umbra hacker can toss a Brain Blast at the enemy hacker unopposed.
Last bullet point of Reset: In his Reactive Turn, the trooper has an enemy declare or execute an Order in his Zone of Control. The Unidron is in ZoC, so the victim is allowed to Reset. Edited - you are differentiating hacking area vs ZoC, I see.
@Mahtamori This should answer your situation. "However, all members of a Fireteam must declare the same Order, declaring the same Short Skills of the Order or Entire Order as the Team Leader." The Crane has to be the leader in order to attack and can only declare "CC Attack, Coup de Grâce, Dodge and those Skills which specify that they can be used in CC Combat or in the Engaged state, as Reset." That would stop never-ending normal CC attacks and Change Face would be eligible as an ARO if the Celestial Guard activated in ZoC on the order to move the Crane into B2B.
I don’t think never-ending CC is possible anyway. The clause in Stealth says “even if he reaches base contact with them” (my emphasis) which is going to be hard to justify applying when you’re already starting the the Order in base contact.
