FAT2 is a textbook example of retarded game design. It's a skill that literally gets worse the better you play to the point where it breaks and turns off when you stack enough MODs to go over BS20. FAT2's at its most effective when you play like a total moron and at its weakest when you play utilising actual strategy. That is a clear indicator it needs changing, it's only one level of stupid that needs fixing above game mechanics that never work like Defensive Hacking Devices.
Intruders shooting through smoke are designed to deal with threats like TO. They also are 1W, not Shock Immune and pay a premium for getting MSV2. Intruder vs Cutter: 48/12/1 vs 5 (that's with Smoke) and 41/9/1 vs 13 without. So you're looking at ~ 5 orders to do 3 wounds. Tarik (5-linked) vs Cutter inside 24": 49/14/2 vs 22/13/4 Yup, that's right: Tarik has higher damage output than an Intruder vs the Cutter. Push Tarik under 16" and it gets a little ridiculous: 52/16/3 vs 15/9/3. It gets worse, Khwarji Spitfire 5-linked vs Cutter under 16": 52/16/3 vs 15/11. Even a Khwarji in a Haris is still competitive with an Intruder at the things you're saying an Intruder is designed for. What's notable is the risk: if Tarik and the Khwarji don't get a Crit there're really quite likely to take a wound, whereas the Intruder is less likely to get hit. Mostly this is because of Intruder design, so let's compare a Khwarji MSV2 MK12 with the Spitfire then: an MSV2 MK12 seems designed for killing Cutters. MK12 Khwarji, core linked: 54/17/3 vs 8/6 (no Smoke) 61/21/4 vs 4/4 (with Smoke) In the an ideal match up for the Khwarji MK12 it's still only putting out about the same damage as the Spitfire. Sure it's not a perfect tool, but it's useful whatever is going on and cheap enough that you can run multiple options. Also for added LOL. Khwarji 5-linked vs Posthuman Sniper outside of 24", no Smoke. Spitfire 66/32 vs 16/7 Mk12 53/20 vs 24/10 Why bother using Smoke+MSV2 when you have FAT2?
So, you're saying that the fact that I need to use 2-3 ARO pieces and that in each of the f2f exchanges the 5-linked Fat2 Tarik will have similar chances for crit as a regular model has 1v1 is somehow great game design? (yeah, I know, BS13, too lazy to fix)
With all due respect, that’s quite irrelevant. You need bodies to fuel orders so you cannot claim that the 4 other bodies are added is a cost, when they would be added regardless, in order to fill your list. Khawarij Spitfire is cheaper than any of your proposed options and comes just as lethal.
It's not that bad and I think it's bad. Playing like a moron with it vs competent AROs will see you taking wounds when you fail to Crit, you need to look at the other side of the equation. I increasingly like making FAT2 +3 DAM (total) and also giving Tarik, Khwarji Spitfires and Sheepskin FA1. You'd get similar unlinked performance and it opens up space for other units to be the main linked guns.
Somehow in another thread people complained that doing approximately the same thing but cheaper is superior because the extra points give you more orders and options. So, no, points the overall combo costs are quite important.
Are you trying to argue against one person with the arguments of another instead of your own? Or substitute one person's arguments for the others? Stop introducing additional fake variables into the mix just as your strawman to be shot down in the next sentence, because that's lazy as all get out. Start treating us seriously, please.
Regardless of whether or not you think it's a problem playing like a moron with it the point is from a design standpoint skills shouldn't be functioning at their best when used by idiots and then literally not work when used by skillful players. That's bad game design there, and an example of a game mechanic that requires changing. You want the skill to be useful in the hands of a skillful player not getting worse or literally ceasing to function for them. You want it to work like Camo or Link bonuses. They function when used by idiots, yet are even better when used by skillful players.
A Khwarji Haris with Spitfire that drags a Dr around is 92/2. That's comparable to other similar Haris (MI mainly). Ramah Taskforce ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 KHAWARIJ Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 30) KHAWARIJ (Fireteam: Haris, NCO) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 30) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32) 2 SWC | 92 Points Open in Infinity Army It's not really particularly expensive for what you get. Compare it to a Grenzer Haris: it's only 9pts more expensive. A Tarik version of that comes out at about the same cost as a Kusanagi Haris.
You can't divorce skills from their associated units: and Tarik / Khwarji dont work at their best when used moronicaly and +9 is practically hard (it requires targetted). Sheepskin I'll give you: Nanoscreen, multiple wounds, high BS.... Yeah, she's absolutely point and click and will get to 21 regularly. I don't get her design.
You absolutely can divorce skills from their associated units. The skills are designed to be used across the entire spectrum of the game, not to be hard linked to a single or even a couple of models. We analyse the merits of everything from Assault to Infiltrate to Martial Arts to Defensive Hacking Devices based on the skills' text not the profiles they're attached to. FAT2 isn't any different here and it's functionally flawed from the get go even before you consider what happens when you attach it to a profile or what gun you use it with. It functions in a retarded, nonsensical, fashion. It may not hit the ultimate ceiling of it ceases to function with Tarik, but the point is the same. When you stack better MODs like removing Cover and firing in the +3 rangeband FAT2 becomes significantly less and less effective at modifying the %s conversely against the worse your MODs the more effective it becomes. That's a badly designed skill right there.
It's not like it removes extra crits when you go over 20; it just stops adding its own. If you can get your BS up past 20 (maybe you are using Tarik's AP Rifle + Light Shotgun profile), you are still critting on 2 or more numbers. I.e. Tarik in a 5-link with a shotgun against someone who is targeted is at a total +12 mod, for a total BS of 25. Sure, you're not benefiting from Fatality L2's bonus, but you're certainly not being penalized for stacking modifiers.
@Triumph I agree that it's a badly designed skill and I largely agree on the reasons but CB absolutely does balance skills on the understanding that they will appear on only a limited number of units / profiles. I think it's clear that FA2 is of this type. So the Khwarji and Tariks relative vulnerability to return fire against high-end AROs is designed in as a balancing factor. I do agree with your basic premise, I fell that you're just overstating how successful 'moronic' tactics will be with them.
@Nuada Airgetlam nothing strawman about anything I said, regardless, points and functioning parts efficiency is important to add to the equation, Fatality l2 is not as dreadful skill as some people say and it is far from game breaking, in fact as I said before link teams in the past have achieved even better odds at causing critical hits. Take for example a really cheap Varuna Link team. Varuna Immediate Reaction Division ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ORC Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35) ORC Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35) 0 SWC | 100 Points Open in Infinity Army Crits on 23 that is 3 shots with 20% chance of causing critical and disregarding any enemy rolls of 1-3 (if not critical). The Intruder combo comes at 52 or 53 points and 1,5 SWC (depending on your choice of HMG or Multi Sniper). One can argue both examples are "equally brain-dead" and require the same or less "good play" to pull them off as a Tariq full link, why exactly we hear no complains about them? more or less the same reasons why Tariq lists have not taken over the tournament scene as predicted in the previous season and it remains to see how influential the new Fatality l2 options will be in this season.
Wow since when ORC have MMR Lv2 for this sweet cover ignore ? Or a fact you need to walk into 8" to get that 23 ? Why not to throw a fact that victim is TARGETED if you are really want to get ridiculus (just add AHD ORC to a mix).
Adding another to the list of units moderately similar to Tarik. While Tarik is competent in melee and can super-Jump, Mowang has NCO and HI vulnerabilities. Mowang (Spitfire) vs Ryuken-9 (Suppression Fire) 25% / 26%
For what it's worth I'll give my opinion. The critical hit mechanic is already something I find annoying since it ignores ARM, and better odds no matter if one side has better bonuses, raw stats and overall worked out/paid ponts to gain an advantage, punishing low order count lists, expensive troops, and what's the worst part tactical playing. So yes, adding fatality n2 to more high burst profiles is always making the game worse in my opinion.
