Greetings all! I was reading about the changes to Total Immunity, and a question occurred to me: What happens when somebody with Total Immunity gets hit with an E/M Close Combat Weapon? As the rules are currently written, an E/M CCW causes you to take a BTS roll or be Isolated (and maybe Immobilized) plus an Armor roll or take a wound, and Total Immunity lets you convert hits with special ammunition to Normal damage, so does Total Immunity then convert the E/M to normal damage, avoiding the Isolation and (potentially) Immobilization, but effectively turning an E/M CCW into a Double Action CCW? Because that seems like it's probably not what was intended, but, I'm not a mind reader. Does it just ignore the E/M effect entirely and cause a single hit of Normal damage? I know this is a bit of a corner case, but I play JSA and do my best to get into melee as often as I can, and figure it's probably going to come up in a game before too long.
As I understand it, a EM CCW against TI becomes a N CCW, so just a single roll vs ARM or BTS (whichever is higher)...
So what happens when someone shoots TI with a Shock + Breaker Rifle? Is it still 2 normal rolls? Because that's analogous to the way EM CCWs are written.
With Total Immunity, since you’re ignoring the ammunition types and treating it as Normal Ammunition, “Shock + Breaker” has to be just Normal Ammunition. Normal + Normal isn’t anything.
Shock just adds an effect after a failed roll, where E/M specifically states it's an ARM roll and a BTS roll, which is why I wasn't sure if it's just the BTS that gets converted to normal, of if it's the whole thing.
Shock + Breaker turns into both an ARM roll (Shock) and a BTS roll (Breaker). It’s very much analogous to the E/M CCW, and I agree with @solkan’s analysis.
Shock + Breaker vs Bioimmunity = Normal + Breaker (you get to choose whether to use ARM or BTS vs the Normal, but that doesn't change that it's Normal) Shock + Breaker vs Totap Immunity = Normal + Normal = Normal
They cludged together E/M CCW as “N+E/M” instead of doing something reasonable like defining its own ammo type. Because a close combat weapon with just the E/M would make everyone sad. But in order to read down to the part about “E/M Special Ammo and Close Combat Weapons”, you’re not ignoring the effects of the E/M ammo. That’s why I think you just treat it as “Normal”, not “Normal + Normal”.
Kind of weird, but Miyamoto hitting a Dogwarrior in CC with dual wield (AP+EXP) still only deals one hit. :(
Sure but with Bio it (potentially) turns into BTS+BTS. I don't see why that's any difference to Normal + Normal. I mean we've been told it is, but it adds a level of confusion.
Well, I don’t know whether I’m right. Looking at the FAQ answer for Bio-Immunity vs. AP+Shock, I thought that was saying that you reduce “AP+Shock” to “AP”, as that’s where the ARM roll comes from. The “N + E/M” for E/M close combat weapons still looks like the special exception, like the Special Maneuver Discover+Shoot, or Hack Transport Aircraft, that doesn’t work like anything else.
The logic on that holds because it is the ammo you look at, not which attribute you decide to be used as protection. Your potential BTS+BTS is actually Normal + Breaker, and those two do not mix according to the ammo rules. The other FAQ relevant here is AP+Shock where Bioimmunity negates Shock, but the two ammos mix according to the rules and you're still left with AP. You're not even given the option to do a half ARM + BTS because of the way ammo mix. For Total Immunity it makes ALL ammo Normal. And Normal has ARM affinity so it combines with itself leaving you with a single instamce of Normal. The exception, of course, is vulnerabilities which would act more like Bioimmunity
Seems to me it's this. The additional wound of an EM CCW is part of the EM special ammunition rules, and I don't see how there would be any exception to the first bullet of Total Immunity. When suffering a successful Attack or being affected by any weapon or rule that forces any ARM or BTS Rolls, the owner is immune to the special effects of the Special Ammunitions, treating them as Normal Ammunition. So effectively, the ammunition type of the weapon is normal, and you never apply the bit about the 'extra' wound, because it and the entire section of rules that it's part of is ignored, effectively turning an EM or EM/2 CCW into a CCW.
This has made things a bit easier to wrap my head around. Total Immunity turns a hit from an E/M CCW into a hit from a regular CCW. I think my confusion was coming from the line "...the owner is immune to the special effects of the Special Ammunitions, treating them as Normal Ammunition." and I was thinking that the E/M part was the special ammunition, as it's handled separately from the ARM roll against damage, and thus, it was the only part of the attack that was effected by Total Immunity. Thanks again, all.
But that's the main charm of Weredoggos... that it takes Miyamoto 3 orders instead of 1 to turn into fillets.
