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How will you use them?

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by VicBanjo, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. VicBanjo

    VicBanjo Máster of Kaboom

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    With the new release of RTF some units had came to the "spotlight". There are some units that I don't finish how to use: Al Fasid, Tuareg and Zhayedan. What are your ideas for this pieces?
     
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  2. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    Quite sadly, I think an argument can be made that the new RTF units have pushed these 3 units out of regular rotation. But I think there's still a meta dependent case that can be made for each of those. For my meta, those specific units don't add to much currently, but I think a lot of people will be trying out the new factions soon. I can see the Zhayedan or Tuareg AHD getting some use in my meta in the coming days. In some ways I can see the Al Fasid as an anti-haqq unit between the mine laying and the regular HMG. That will be useful in a post RTF world. Also Varuna popularity is continuing to increase so worth thinking about whether these 3 are a boon or hindrance vs Varuna lists.
     
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  3. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Tonight my taureg in hidden deployment set a mine at the entrance to a garden it was in. Then the old jink and shotgun at the fire team that had walked past. Sometimes the classics are classic for a reason.
     
  4. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Nothing really threatens to make Tuareg go extinct. They are our Crocmen with usual Haqq-PanO tradeoffs and flavours. They are still our only TO folks in the faction, and they are arguably among the better ones in their price bracket in the game. That's not bad.

    Zhayedans are straight up disappointment. Apparently it was a no-no to allow anything long-ranged into a Ghulam link (besides Ghulam themselves). Except maybe Tarik in crit-fishing mode, heh. So these guys were left out. Which is a shame as Zhayedan sniper in a Core could be an okay piece, provided you don't have to pay about 150 points for that Core, considering its performance is not significantly improved over actual Ghulam core. Strictly speaking, there is one thing they can do - going near Jammers. Aaand that's it. They still won't accomplish much once there. I even think that Tuaregs can be used in such circumstances more effectively - they sorta can bypass problematic ZoCs (stealth, markers) and almost always they have better tools to bring with them wherever they go.

    Al-Fasid is less of a disappointment. Still, his role of mid-range smoke thrower was seriously compromised by inclusion of more optimized Ghulam NCO and rather toolboxy Carmen. Which in a sense is a good thing, because having to rely on 50+ pts model for your smoke would be sad. Letting him into actual link would've made him an actual option, but sadly not the option we are supposed to have, it seems.

    All that leads me to my main gripe with RTF. Its link options. They are not really restrictive, which is good (or rather "standard" when it comes to links these days), but CB managed to design very confused compositions in a game where core mechanics were often turning any such designs into moderately useful toolboxiness.

    My very subjective impressions are these:
    Khwarijis have no business slogging with line infantry.
    Tarik has no business being even more infuriating with FT bonuses (I could maybe understand Khwariji Haris...).
    Zhayedans could have an actual role in line infantry FT: +1 BS on HMG for this price hike wouldn't make any significant difference (aside from being rather bad listbuilding idea) CB seems to worry about, and MMS2 profiles could be interesting.
    Fasid needed some linkability (some mixed Haris could be okay, although competition for Haris slot is stupidly fierce in RTF) to make him pull his weight in points.
    Unit costs are complete whack, although that has little to do with RTF per se.

    Then there's still a barely noticeable sour flavor of losing faction identity still lingering in my mouth after that announcement of all the new units, and then there are some worries about possible power creep. It mixes nicely with these RTF-specific concerns into a truly exquisite bouquet that is perfect to greet our new long-awaited releases with. /s
     
    #4 Barrogh, Mar 29, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
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  5. KwarkyMats

    KwarkyMats Well-Known Member

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    The Zhayedan are the biggest losers overall in their own sectorials.
    The non Breaker Rifle/Sniper Rifle profiles are way too expensive for what they do. Ramah has 6 different troops which have Doctor Plus profiles, so the AMK feels wasted on the Zhayedan. Marksmanship level 2 on the HMG profile would be aces, but I can imagine that's not the direction CB wants to go. Always rolling on 18's in a core fireteam before visual modifiers? That's pretty damn strong.
    A Ghulam core performs just as well AND has many more interesting options with Khawarij, Naffatun and Namurr counting as Ghulams.
    I'm still bummed out about it, because I really dig their design and their fluff (too cool for bio modifications, all experience!)
    I will stil be running the breaker rifle profile solo for short range shenanigans, I just don't really feel like taking more than one Zhayedan in a list.

    Al Fasid still has a pretty good toolboxy use thanks to its weaponry and minelayer. Decent armor and BTS, comes with two wounds for survivability. They're still pretty strong solo piece jack of all trades as opposed to the more single purpose driven new troops and profiles. Also one of the few sources of long range templates in the sectorial that is able to take a beating.

    Tuaregs are amazing and I absolutely love them. What other faction has a hidden doctor in the midfield that's able to pick up troops on 18's? In a HI/TAG dominant meta the AHD profile should not be underestimated. That WIP 15 + surprise shot is going to hurt. On top of that, every profile comes with mines as well. Together with Al Fasids, they are the only sources of mines in Ramah
     
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  6. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    upload_2019-3-29_11-32-54.png

    :joy::joy::joy::joy:
     
  7. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Seems someone found a way to make disgusting ARO setup which requires enemy to fail single characteristic test to be stopped.

    Good some factions have fun in the new "non-stunned" world.
     
  8. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    Errrr... What?
     
  9. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Akrylat-Cannon is a nice ARO piece.
     
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  10. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    Sure, whatever. Not the point by an ocean.
     
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  11. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Well, this 18s-rolling abomination (after visual mods, no less) still doubles as nice ARO setup, so he's not exactly wrong.
    This is slightly off-topic though. CB doesn't seem to mind almost chess-level offensive power on active turn, it's just they probably decided that Ramah should not be able to do it outside of 24'.

    But fun fact: unlinked Tarik has almost the same odds against linked Haidao (so basically just a dumb BS13 in a link) in his -3 range as Fasid in his +3 range (so same HMG rangebands).
    Namely, Fasid is just a bit safer, but they have the same chance of wounding their target.

    I'm not sure whether it's a testament of Tarik (and frankly normal Khwarij Spitfire as well) not strictly adhering to "assault design" of RTF, pinpointing that exceptions exist and they went to CB's pet profiles instead of what could be sectorial's long-range specialists, or just how unimpressive of an attack piece Al-Fasid is, by standards of any sectorial army. He has his other tools, of course, but there's either competition for their function, or they are there to keep him safer... Which is only worth it if main functions of the piece are valuable enough to pay for its increased safety.
     
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  12. KwarkyMats

    KwarkyMats Well-Known Member

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    Haha whoops you got me there, completely forgot about Dahshat :)
    That is one disgusting cheap link team for what it does. (And I will absolutely try this at some point)
    Makes me wonder why the Zhayedan are left kinda boring. I guess the sculpts will make nice proxies for other RTF troops, I can live with that.
     
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  13. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    Ramah has the Mine Dispenser Maggie, as well as the very affordable Monstrucker with Drop Bears (though these mines don't get Camo).
     
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  14. KwarkyMats

    KwarkyMats Well-Known Member

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    Whoops forgot about those too.
    Serves me right for filtering on anti-personel mines in Army.
     
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  15. VicBanjo

    VicBanjo Máster of Kaboom

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    I've thinking about how to use the Zhayedan, and I reached the conclusion that they are mostly viable with Tarik and Leila with them and in very specific missions, mostly killing missions.

    Anatolia
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    TARIK MANSURI Lieutenant L2 Spitfire, Nanopulser, Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 59)
    ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
    ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    ZHAYEDAN Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)

    NaN SWC | 168 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  16. vorthain

    vorthain Veteran Novice

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    I am feeling the same about the Fasid. He is being pushed out in favor of other units which are smaller, cheaper, and faster. To be completely honest, for me, he has no business in the Ramah Taskforce. I think he's mainly there because CB wanted a big guy in the Red Veil box. His unsavory background screams Khanate (or QK, if they didn't have the worse Azra'il).
     
  17. Palomides

    Palomides Well-Known Member

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    Others have said all that needs to be said about Tuaregs (still good) and Zhayedan (good proxies!), but I'd like to add something about the Al Fasid.

    Don't forget about the HRL profile. It's not as versatile as the HMG, but it's a strongish/tough ARO piece that's not a whole lot more expensive than the Khawarij HRL. No link bonuses, true. But it's much, much tougher. The SMG also covers closer range bands. I could see this guy holding down a flank or something as the anvil to the Khawarij/Mukhtar/Tarik hammer.
     
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  18. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    The Azra'il wanted me to tell you they want to have a word with you.
    Outside of this fine estabilishment.

    ;)

    I don't see Azra'il as being worse.
    Rather less toolbox'y, more straightforward and therefore more affordable. Plus, a way better can openers with their AP HMG or Feuerbach.
     
  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    The Al-Badass is a situational thing, and locally we seem to like the HRL over the HMG. Yes, HMG does come with smoke (or regular grenades), but the HRL gets the SMG for close encounters.

    Tuaregs are TO skirmisher specialists, I don't see them not being taken.

    Zhayedan seem to be very situational, but even out of a link I could see taking the sniper.


    If only so they can continue drinking here afterwards...
     
  20. VicBanjo

    VicBanjo Máster of Kaboom

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    So, going deeper into the question: how will you use the Fasid-Shaytaniya (ML bot) duo? I know that the Zhayedan Haris is the most obvious choice and Tuareg are last turn specialist/skirmisher.
     
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