With Ramah unveiled, we are looking at yet another very strong core link pushing the boundaries in terms of offensive output as one of the inherent advantages of sectorials (fireteams) is looking to get increasingly stronger with every release. Of course, Vanilla Haqq gets access to new units as well, but I was wondering how they hold up compared to what sectorials are able to pull off in comparison. How do you play your vanilla Haqq without jealously looking over to what the sectorials can manage? Would you say that vanilla Haqq can compete in a meaningful way - and if so - how do you go about it? I'm slowly coming to the realization that none of the sectorials allows me to field the units I actually want to field, so vanilla Haqq seems like the only way to get there.
I haven't played any games with Ramah yet (nor will I be able to for at least another week) but I have to agree with the general consensus that it seems very pushed as a sectorial. That being said I think Vanilla is going to be just fine and in fact is now looking like an incredibly strong choice. Vanilla Haqq has always felt very competitive to me but Ramah adds to it in ways that I think are unprecedented. The Red Fury Mukhtar has set the bar as essentially the single strongest gunfighter in our faction (not in literally every matchup but I digress). Ramah as sort of smoothed over the only weakness Vanilla had in that it lacked raw firepower, at least in terms of what other factions can boast. Again, I'm slightly oversimplifying but we were essentially given a multi wound Nisse, and while it can't link in Vanilla you have to weigh that against the support of all 4 Ghazi. Could you imagine if PanO could smoke trick like that for that cheap? Not to mention access to our efficient camo-infiltrators (Hunza/Farzan/Hawwa) which is definitely a weakness Ramah has. Ramah has me very excited don't get me wrong, but I'm frankly just as stoked to be playing Vanilla with these new tools.
Well said, @Ankaa! RTF is incredibly exciting to me, because it has all the units I have ever wanted to play. But Vanilla, as always, has the ability combine these new, strong units with traditional Haqqislam tricks. In fact, RTF list building has a real weakness when it comes to cheap, affordable support pieces. Vanilla Haqq doesn't. So pick your RTF centerpieces of choice and then combine them with ghazis, daylami, Hunza etc... Even Halqa could be useful with the more aggressive units.
Oh man, how could I forget to mention the Daylami! That's another point, I think Ramah has the weakest ARO game of all 4 Haqq options. Not insurmountable, but that's another huge boon you'll get in Vanilla. Is there anything Vanilla can't do now?
Not sure they can't, but I find it hard to figure out how to contest those high BS and B fireteams. Is it just throw a lot of cheap roadblocks like Daylami and Mutts at them and hope something sticks? Maybe I'm just vastly overestimating their actual strengt on the table.
For fireteams, Daylami a little less so, but Mutts will be able to throw wrenches in people's plans in multiple ways. Jammer any member of the fireteam and you will kick them out, stripping the BS bonus. Jammer the leader and break the fireteam entirely. If a core has some vulnerable pieces, walk in an AD troop to take them out. If it's a pain train, they will be pumping a lot of points into that link, so go kill the cheer leaders. Sometimes dealing with the high BS and B fireteams means avoiding firefights with them in the first place.
It's the fact that every short skill opponent spends shooting daylami is a short skill he doesn't use to shoot something that would be able to bite back on your active turn (and it's not like those daylami constitute your order base, even). I really wouldn't expect much else from that. Mutts are usually much more than that though.
Vanilla is also the only way to run Saladin at the moment as well. That alone is enough to make it enticing.
Vanilla has Saladin & Halqas as unique models, as well as the possibility of Fidays mixed with MSV2. I miss the Halqas for their ability to start in zone, and saturate the deployment zone with AROs. Also in my local Meta the cheap 5 man fireteam with a ML AROing is common. Being able to Coordinated order a couple of these turn 1 is an easy way to take it out in a cheap exchange. Haqqislam ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31) AL-DJABEL Rifle + Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW, Knife. (0 | 35) SALADIN Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 36) FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) DJANBAZAN HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35) HALQA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) HALQA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) HALQA (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) HAWWA' (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25) GROUP 2 1 4 2 DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17) 5.5 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army
Yeah, I really hope they'll give him a N3 sculpt soon. He looks so flimsy next to the newer releases.
I started cleaning the model and looking at the contact points a little while ago and subsequently gave up and put him back in the blister.
I generally believe that vanilla can overwhelm through variety and I think that's still true with, well, every faction tbh. It's all well and good having an awesome fireteam where your Vet Kazak is backed up by a bunch of line troopers until a Fiday sticks a Mine down in front of them on the first order and then walks out to LSg the team while triggering the ARO that sets the mine off. There are a huge amount of fantastic troops that don't need fireteams at all. End of the day it's three sets of bonuses, you can overcome those without too much trouble.
I feel that like a personal insult. My Saladin is almost hurt :P IMHO he's the best miniature CB ever made and he looks great even though he's not the newest one. I've even put here in forum few pictures not so long ago to show people how he looks beside new stuff. https://forum.corvusbelli.com/attachments/img_1118-jpg.10573/ And about Vanilla Haqq - it's my main army. Even though I played a lot QK and a bit HB. I thought Ramah will become my favourite, cause I hoped Sal will be there. He's not. Tough, I'll still try playing RTF. BUT Vanilla will be my favourite army. And it's possible to win games against links, my experiences at big tournaments show this - most of times it's my vanilla vs enemies sectorial armies. And most times Haqqislam is the one standing after the dust falls down ;) In one of the Polish Championships for over 50 players from Poland and other countries my Haqq was 5th, highest vanilla (Tohaa won, but they have links, so it's not vanilla ;) )... All the great units, all the combos, like Saladin + Djabel, Kasym + Djanbazan and now Kasym + Mukhtar MSV2 or Khawarij MSV2, all the Daylamis, Lasqa, Shihab for AROs, Hunza, Ghazi, and all the stuff I don't have time to write now. Haqq is getting stronger :) PozdRawiam / Greetings P.S. Two new options for existing units really made me happy - ABH with SMG and Akrylat Kanone for only 12pts, like Naffatun or Ghulam, is great, and new Rafiq Red Fury is also something fresh and funny :)
