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Noone discussing NCA upcoming changes ?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by eciu, Feb 25, 2019.

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  1. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    M855 was the standard issue ammo for NATO until very recently, like the last 5-7 years or something. And the new standard (M855A1) has a green tip as well. All the green signifies is that it is ball ammo and not something special (red is tracer, black is AP, etc). The new standard is essentially the same, but with a steel tip for a little added oomph. I'm not sure what you mean by that last sentence, never even heard of a short barrel M16. Are you talking about the M4A1? I've used both the M16 and M4 at the range and in combat, and I can assure you they both can engage at well over 300m.

    It is, 7.62x51mm (.308). I try not to equate RL caliber with Infinity DAM or ammo type. It's not like CB are a bunch of gun nuts with a wealth of knowledge about ballistic science. I based my choice off of real life experience. Also, the .308 is a little more reliable at the ranges a designated marksman is engaging at. All our SDMs carried an M4 along with their M14.

    I imagine the HGL as bigger because it has a higher damage value. There's a lot of miniaturization going on in Infinity ammo, so it makes modern comparisons for the heavier munitions more difficult as there isn't a modern analogue to compare against. Also, 5.56 is a garbage round and I prefer 6.8mm or 7.62x51.
     
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  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I usually call a Marksman rifle a full-length M16A3/A4 (or L86 if you're a Brit) with a scope on it, when the basic combi is an M4 with a red-dot, in modern equivalents.

    Original M16s with the triangular handguards were set up for a lighter round, M193 in US service. 55gr full metal jacket at ~3100fps. A short barrel like my XM177E2 replica (12.2" barrel!) can engage out past 200m, as long as I'm not the one shooting it... There seems to be a loose nut behind the buttplate when I'm shooting, preventing me from hitting anything.:laughing::innocent:

    M855 'green tips' are semi-armor-piercing, with a steel insert, and are longer/heavier (62gr) which requires a faster twist in the barrel. This faster twist has been standard since the full-length round handguards came out on the M16A2. M4s shoot those just fine, but my XM177E2 doesn't necessarily like them because it has the old, slower barrel twist.
     
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  3. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    I left in 2012, guys with different specialisty used a very short barreled flat-top M16 with the compensator starting after the front sight, definitely not for 300mts. On the other hand the M4 had a much thicker barrel, longer and with a slower twist that we shooted with the green tip, a tracer in the fifth last and a separate magazine only of tracers. It was the M4A1, but because it was the only variant we were presented with just call them the M16 katzar (short) and the M4 Kala (marksman).

    Dont be like that with the 5.56 man, its much lighter to carry, bigger magazines and perfectly serviceable for LOTAR shooting. Its true that for longer ranges its not reliable, but thats what the M24 or the Mag are for.
     
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  4. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    @jimbo slice , just went searching for it on the interwebs, apparently the Kala is an "Accurized M4A1, used by "kala sa'ar" marksmen", thats were the confusion is coming from.
     
  5. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    @Make PanO Great Again :P I think we're getting hung up on minor variants of the same thing. My M4 had a thinner barrel than my M16. Probably comes down to manufacturer.

    On the 5.56, it comes down to what you want out of a round. I'd personally prefer if my target stayed down after I put them down instead of dying a slow, agonizing death caused by the bullet bouncing around their insides. Also, the vast majority of the engagements I was in were at extreme close range. The 5.56 is a little to fast to do it's job that close unless you get lucky and hit a bone. I was a Javelin gunner for a time, so the weight doesn't bother me either lol!
     
  6. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    @Section9 The M855 was classified by the ATF as armor piercing, but it doesn't actually fit the legal definition (still has a lead core, jacket is less than 25% of the weight). The A1 has the steel tip, and is slightly armor piercing, but isn't available commercially.
     
  7. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    @jimbo slice i dont know exactly how to describe it in english, was a kala hod in a team of the 934, so every efing insertion was o foot, with a shitload of equipment, so weight is extremly important for me hahahahahaha.

    About the damage, at CQB we shoot from the chest, pointing with your body and pressing the gun against the center of ceramic plate to stay stable (very width legs position and use the eye only to confirm before the first round), you can shoot 8 rounds in a very rapid succession hitting very close to each other, cant do that with 7.62 (maybe you can, i never tried actually), so dont worry, wasnt depending on luck.

    I´m always pleasantly surprise about the amount of veterans in this game, apparently there is more than a few.
     
  8. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    I can't find a translation. Is it Hebrew?

    I was mechanized, so we had Bradleys to help hump our gear :sunglasses:. The regular US Infantry trains to put the butt stock in your shoulder pocket, keep both eyes open and trust your instincts/ hand-eye coordination. SOCOM guys probably use all kinds of weird techniques.

    It probably is harder with a 7.62mm. I got good enough with the M240 to write my name on a wall, though.
     
  9. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    Yea, loosely it translate to "front marksman", kind of a front spotter i think you call it. The front was me to scan forward with NV sights and a Negev to put suppressive fire if we get ambushed (so the team can spread).

    I envy you on that hahahahaha, we had to carry all kind of shit, the breaching kit or the camouflage kit, cameras, thermals, water and food, etc...
    My best friend was a tank driver, every time he trained with infantry he made Turkish coffee on the front of the tank and speak about how great was the A/C inside and all the potato chips, coke and chocolates he had in the cockpit... in front of the poor guys humping all the gear hahahahahahaha
     
  10. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    Not a direct translation then. We'd call it "point man" in the US. I was basically the same thing when we dismounted, but I'm starting to think there are fundamental differences in tactical doctrine between the U.S. Army and the IDF.
     
  11. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    "fundamental differences in tactical doctrine" is probably putting it mildly.
     
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  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Uhm, honest-to-Gene-Stoner green-tip M855(no suffix) aka SS109 ammo:
    Emphasis in both quotes mine.

    And let's not get into what BATFInsane is doing, because they banned 5.45milsurp when someone created a pistol chambered in 5.45 (an AK74 with a super-stubby barrel and no buttstock, created in a way to comply with US laws on barrel length)

    I'm waiting for reports of them banning M2 AP Ball (ancient .30-06 ammo) because someone at ATF realized that there are pistols made in .30-06 for benchrest target shooting... *eyeroll*




    I'd bet that the only commonality is probably that "light infantry" is anything but lightly loaded! :laughing: That one seems to be universal, and will probably be universal until the heat death of the universe!

    I'd assume that the Israeli doctrine is close to optimized for patrolling in areas with long sightlines, though if someone wants to start a new thread about varying RW military doctrines I'd be happy to read and contribute what (little) I know.
     
  13. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    we really went off topic here, lets move back to Infinity, only one more day for the update.
     
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  14. SpectralOwl

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    I'd say it's finally gotten back on topic, no-one is discussing NCA upcoming changes.

    Anyone think there's a case for an ORC Haris, Tinbot, Aquila FTO Fireteam? Had a round of Armoury in a tournament a week ago where that would have been fantastic, as between Tinbot, Fairy Dust, an MSV3 member with deadly close-quarters guns and a mountain of points in the Armoury it would have been next to impossible to shift without E/M or crazy luck.
     
  15. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    I don't know that I agree that it takes crazy luck to out-shoot or otherwise negate an Aquila in the Armoury,

    Haris or no.
     
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  16. SpectralOwl

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    The Aquila would certainly be in trouble, but the Orcs aren't something that can be ignored. My opponent for that game actually used a Zhanying and Wu Ming team of three to great effect, as although I could knock down one at a time by getting good angles or using hacking, I was eventually starved of orders and couldn't control the Armoury on my last turn. If I'd had a smoke Warband alive at the time though (technically had three, all IMM-2 due to inability to save against MadTraps), I'd have eaten that team for breakfast even by outpointing it by just having a nearby Fireteam and my LT file in. An MSV2+ model would prevent that, especially with 3 granting immunity to Surprise Shot and Surprise Attack.

    Now I think about it, Orc Haris+Black Friar+Bipandra would be another very nasty combo to have. Drop Bears, a resilient HI with a shotgun, a Doctor with a DTW and the Black Friar's Albedo and MSV2 would make the team very tricky to move if it had time to set up.
     
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  17. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I am with you on this one, and agree that these HI attack pieces in LI links is power creep, no two ways about it.

    Regarding Brigadas, however, I would argue that almost no one took them in their pain train formation due to the prohibitive cost and no real benefit. That's the biggest shame, imo, that you can't viably take those uniform expensive HI or some MI links, since they don't add enough for their points. I think CB tried doing a workaround in order for us to actually start using those Mobile Brigadas and Orcs.
    The fix is a short sighted one, imho. Since now they literally need to transition every sectorial to this new "power level" with mixed links, and the original problem still remains.

    What's interesting to see is, even with the almighty Vet Kazak in a 5-man link, Vanilla ariadna with its camo spam reigns supreme. There are fundamental issues with the game mechanics and costings there which will need to get addressed, if not earlier, then N4 I hope.
     
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  18. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    The Bolt Haris/Core + Aquila just feels better suited to this than the Orcs. Nevermind that the Orc Haris costs as much as the Bolt Core but from experience the Armoury is a prime opportunity to utilize Smoke clouds, Hackers, Jamming and CC. There is also something to be said about dislodging the ever annoying Achilles from inside the Objective Room. Orcs don't really contribute much beyond their second wound, Bolts however provide some Hacking as well as the E/Maulers and Dropbears to deny the area to pretty much any sort of target you can imagine.

    Can't stress enough how much I love the E/Mauler + Aquila Multirifle combo against CC troops. Denying Smoke AROs and putting a -3 MOD on hail Mary Engage/Dodge rolls while opposing them on 15-21s(Cover-No Cover-Core Link Bonus) leaves very little risk.
     
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  19. SpectralOwl

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    Definitely a strong combination! I personally have preferred using E/Maulers aggressively so far, especially combined with hacking. Recently had the pleasure of E/Ming an entire Crusade Link with two E/Maulers and a Deployable Repeater from a Zero, and if I'm not mistaken the Bolt AHD may be the first troop in the game able to reproduce that feat without the aid of other list elements.
     
  20. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    I'm holding all my theorycrafting until tomorrow. We don't know if the video covered all the changes. It's not very likely, but possible.
     
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