Hello dear Infinity comrades-in-arms. This will be my first post in the forum that has stood by my side from the beginning of my Infinity career. (almost) all my questions could be answered. At this point I would like to thank the community for all the lively discussions and exchanges. This time I don't come to clarify a rule question. This time I'm looking for help to get along better with my Tohaa opponent. We want to tackle the mission "The Armory" next week. We play 225p 4swc. Please don't be surprised about these numbers but we slowly increase from 200 to 300 points. Now I have put together three lists. On the one hand the lists should fit to the mission. On the other hand I hope to stand up better against Viral/NanoScreen/Sapper/TO/EclipseNades/Triads/Mates/Bombs and SymbiontArmor. My friend has access to the entire Tohaa range. It doesn't look any different to me. Except for Govads, Janissaries and Sekbans I have at least one of all units in my collection. I ask you to take a look at the following lists and maybe give me another tip on how to improve them. Spoiler: 1 High Order Count + ARO-Pieces 225TheArmory ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25) SALADIN Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 36) FARZAN (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) HAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26) HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 3 3 MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 4 SWC | 224 Points Open in Infinity Army LASIQ: I have chosen the lasiq because it is a solid ARO piece. With viral ammunition it should help to get the symbiontarmor under control. I hope the two BTS-Saves will be enough to kill something in ARO. In ITS10 it also has Forwad Deployment (MI) SHIHAB: ARO as LASIQ but with higher Burst SALADIN: I really wanted to use it once. FARZAN, HUNZAKUT, HAWWA: Camo gives resilience and helps to safely reach the armory. HAWWA Hacker: To open only one of the doors by hacking or D-Charge MUYIB HRL: Fire and Template Spoiler: 2 Lower Order Count but Bashi 225TheArmory2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 2 LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25) SALADIN Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 36) FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) HAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26) HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) BASHI BAZOUK Combi Rifle, E/Mauler / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 17) GROUP 2 4 4 MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 4 SWC | 225 Points Open in Infinity Army This is a light modification of list 1. FARZAN Minelayer to save Saladin, BASHI for flanking Spoiler: 3 High BTS Heavy Hitter 225TheArmory3 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 6 4 3 SALADIN Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 36) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) ASAWIRA Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 43) FASID Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 45) AL-DJABEL Rifle + Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW, Knife. (0 | 35) HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) HAWWA' (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 4 SWC | 225 Points Open in Infinity Army A slightly different approach: ASAWIRA: because of high armor + bts vs Viral. 2 Wounds, FASID: same as ASAWIRA with HRL and Minelayer to shield Saladin AL-DJABEL: to make use of Strategos, cripple his triads or even get nikaul or gao-rael from behind. I really like the HI of List3 but I'm a bit turned off by the low order count. Many thanks in advance. EDIT: I forgot to say that my table is pretty dense. Anyway last time his Nikoul-ViralSniper and Gao-Rael-Sniper dominated the game. EDIT2: I have added explanations to each of my lists as to why i chose one unit and not the other here and there. Special thanks to ambisinister for the note on that!
Maybe I have formulated my question a little too roughly. Let me narrow it down further. Therefore I am reformulating the question: How do you deal with tohaa games? do you also have difficulties, especially with Nikoul and Gao-Rael? The smoke trick doesn't work properly and if I consider what new toy Tohaa will get with the Spiral Corps (impersonation) then it will only get more difficult.
I guess the issue is (at least for me), that most of the seasoned players are used to 300 points and 225 is a completely different thing. So its a bit hard to give you some particular advice that works out without beeing used playing smaller games, because it behaves so different with that amount of points. I personally have no difficulties with the Nikoul and Gao Rael...the former I can smoke the latter receives HMG bursts if necessary. In this Mission those two also have to deal with the Armory itself, which is a big infinite tall building in the center, that blocks a lot of LOFs. Use that to your advantage to get your Ghazis unscathed to the Armory. They then can jam everything that moves in. That doesnt heelp you to much for the scoring, but it weakens Links and the ability to do much against you. But maybe some of them forego their Symbiont Armor to cancel the isolated state, which makes them then good targets for your Chain Rifles. I also recommend to have some regular orders in their group so you can move in good positions or attack more often with them. Shotguns, Flamethrowers and Rocketlaunchers are your friends in that mission...be aware of those damn Makaul, their Flamethrowers and good CC capabilities are are gold in that mission. Try to get them from the distance and be aware of the fact, that when they manage to lay down Eclipse in the reactive turn in the Armory you might be forced to go into CC or use Speculative or Intuitive Attacks, which are order intensive. So try to get them, before they reach the Armory. And, I know you want to use Saladin...but you maybe should consider changing him to something different. He is very expensive and doesnt bring much to the table for that mission. Three Ghulam cost the same, bring one more order and two additional bodies to the table. I am not saying use three Ghulam, but that there are better choices for 36 points. Oh, and use Mines. Put one in the door of the Armory then shoot into the Armory. If they ARO they eat the Mine. Viral Mines would be a good choice for that. And yeah, try to not run on a too low order count. If you do, even one or two losses can cripple your ability to act. I hope this is helpful...let us know how it went.
Maybe I just wanted to use Saladin too much for once. It was thought that his ability would allow me to place myself better around his ARO pieces and he also feeds the other units with his LT command. I now have a new list, taking your advice into account, and which also includes a part of each of the three lists I have presented. I'll briefly summarize what I hope to get from this list and why I've come to this conclusion now: - More orders - Better orders efficiency thanks to Haris and Ghulam Core - Better ARO quality thanks to the Fireteams - Shihab in the second group as ARO-Piece to have one more order for the Ghazis - Ghulam to have more ShotGun on the Field - There were also enough points for a doctor in case of need. Spoiler: New List The Armory 4 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 ASAWIRA (Fireteam: Haris) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 44) MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) MUYIB Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) FARZAN (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 1 3 3 SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 4 SWC | 225 Points Open in Infinity Army Thank you very much! I will let you know how it turned out for me. EDIT: Are ASAWIRA + 2 MUYIB a valid Haris? Are 3 Ghulam a valid Core?
I will say that I think the Asawira is excellent for CQB control zone games, on account of being so resilient and capable. It's an excellent choice.
Looking at the new list: Both your haris and your core are legal. Since your haris is going to want to be aggressive and move up the table, i’d replace the Muyib Lt with the mine layer or panzerfaust profile and have one of the Ghulams be your Lt instead. It’ll make you a little less vulnerable. You might also consider making the 3rd Muyib your doctor and changing the Ghulam doc to an FO. Again, with the haris being aggressive, having the doctor with it could be a great boon. Organizationally, I’d also move one of the 8 pt rems I to group 2 and bring one of the Ghazi up to group 1. I think it’s well worth it to be down 1 regular order in the main group in order to have the option of spending a few a regular orders on a Ghazi. Plus, when the Ghazi goes down, you can always spend a command token to move one of the Rems back to group 1.
I had until now my Ghazis always together in the second group with an extra regular order. This allowed me to give them a Coordinated Order. This time I will try to distribute them among the two groups and use one or the other Ghazi more actively. Thank you for these valuable hints. I think I have a reasonable list now and I'm looking forward to my next Infinity evening on Wednesday. I will let you know how it turned out.
Al-Djabel reaps a heavy toll in small point games, even if he wont be full impersonation. He is very good at knocking out the Gao Raels or the attack pieces.
Unfortunately my Tohaa buddy got sick and we had to postpone our match. But my PanO buddy jumped in. I didn't have time to change my list any more. For example, I would have liked to have shovelled a few more points to turn the Barid into an Assault hacker. But even without adjustments it went surprisingly well. The Asawira with +1 burst was incredibly strong. But I didn't really know what to do with the two Muyibs. When the first Muyib was finished, I disbanded the Fireteam and put the Asawira into Suppressive Fire. He was very valuable from the beginning to the end of the match. The second VIP of the match was the Shihab REM. I don't think I need to say much about that. The Ghulam team was unfortunately relatively useless. In the second round an AD troop finished the whole team. They all had their backs to the AD troop. He then killed one by one. All I could do was to announce a change-facing after he had gone to the ZOC for his Shotgun range +6 MOD. The others were still too far away and couldn't see anything, so they didn't notice the whole thing. With the Ghulams also my LT died and so I missed some orders to use the second round efficiently. My new LT (Barid) was killed in the round after (except the REMS did not stand much more). So the match went well deservedly to PanO. But I'm not sad about it, because it was an exciting match and a great opportunity to try some things concerning the list and the loadouts. The match against Tohaa will be played later. Maybe I'll change some nuances of the list. In any case I will report. Thank you all for your support!
Well, one of the purposes of such a team is to cover your DZ from ADing troops. Usually you can't place all of them so that they cover a more trivial approach vectors, so might as well cover your back. That said, this situation sounds like you could've tried playing Warning! rule. Granted, it's almost certain that active piece can still "slice the pie" using terrain.
Could you explain the sequence of events in a bit more detail? Like @Barrogh suggested Warning! could have potentially helped you here. Also maybe SSL2 depending on the circumstances and assuming you had 4 of them.
Unfortunately, we missed "Warning!" completely. We agreed that there should be something appropriate, but couldn't remember it. At that moment we looked under "Change Facing" and "Alert!" again, but that didn't help us either. Against Pano I will play Unmasking next. The Armory match against Tohaa is still pending. Anyway, I thank you very much for the hint with "Warning!".
We finally made it and managed to catch up on our match. We have renounced the Classifieds and adjusted the distribution of victory points a little. A maximum of eight victory points was possible. One for each round, two for the majority of the Panoplies and three at the end of the match. In this way it is possible to draw with the Panoplies and Round One and Round Two the player who conquers and holds the Armory in Round Three. Spoiler: Table-Setup However, I did not play with the planned list. I couldn't resist and quickly put together a Ramah Taskforce List. Spoiler: 225/4 RT List RT225 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 8 1 LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) MUKHTAR (Fireteam: Haris) Viral Rifle, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31) MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37) TARIK MANSURI Lieutenant L2 AP Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser, Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 57) KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) GHULAM (NCO) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 4 SWC | 225 Points Open in Infinity Army - Haris: Leila + double Mukhtar (proxied by lasiqs) to D-Charge/Hack the armory, Nanopulser to defend it, MSV2 for the smoke-game - Core: L2 Tarik's LT-Orders used by NCO LGL Ghulam to SpecFire grenades and Smoke and FAT2 Spitfire Khawarij to do the dirty work, Doc and Naffatun as Backup Unfortunately, I don't have the time to tell in detail how the match went. Anyway, I came to a point where one thing was clear: I could win this match if I would play the mission, but I decided to do more of the fun stuff! We parted in a draw but with a fun, exciting and action-packed evening.
But then you circumnavigate the main goal and the challenge of the mission. I understand why you did that, but I don't like it.
