this actually isn't a bad idea, but I can see problems with the cheaper ones like geckos, as well as a need to rebalance operators
I agree with the out come but not with the reason. For the most part TAGs are fine and some specific ones need to be tweaked a little, where as fireteams past 3 member are all kinds of obnoxious with very few ways out side of apply more burst and mods to face (HI and REM teams excepted). As for stopping a TAG from or AHD from getting roasted by an enemy hacker this is why the KHD exists it's there to protect and make space for these pieces in the same way HMG or sniper rifle model would for a specialist trying to move into a contested area to press a button or revive another model. Running an AHD or TAG out to do something before making reasonably sure it's safe to do so is stupid, you wouldn't run a clockmaker in front of a sniper rifle and complain about how weapons are ruining specialists. people just seem to be overly hacker shy. Though I do agree AHDs do need to be looked at and adding a program that kicks a single model out of a fireteam would a good way to do so.
In regards to ahd , feel like they need unique toolbox program. It would be cool if they had something like a sensor program, fluff wise everyone uses some form of Comms why couldnt you have a sensor program like spotlight -3 wipe zone of control . I’m sure it could be improved on from this basic idea
generally skills like that are pointed differently depending on what platform theyre on. an extra order on a gecko usually isn't the same as an extra order on a Cutter, or an extra spec fire on the Lizard/Squalo
Or make use of existing rules. Have the pilot/operator be the order monkey and have the TAG profile have Tactical Awareness. This allows situational application of the rule if necessary. However, all TAGs are not created equally and there are some abilities that skew a TAG fairly hard towards usefulness and a lack of extraordinary abilities tend to skew towards uselessness, where TO is an example of the former. I think it's more important under the current pricing scheme to adopt the philosophy that a TAG is a massive investment and will never come without the best possible equipment a faction can put into the TAG, unless the TAG is specifically made to be mass-produced (i.e. essentially cheap Heavy Infantry where costly miniaturization and tesseum has been replaced by sheer bulk) I.e. lean into faction design harder. Give Raicho Full-Auto, give Guijia AD4, etc. Skills in this game act as force multipliers and are necessary on units with very high stats since stats seem to scale exponentially but skills tend to not scale quite as much or quite as hard. It's a bit different since the NCO Mowang uses someone else' orders. LT orders are generated by a completely different unit and only that unit and the NCO models can use them. The specific case of NCO, my experience is that those LT orders are typically not there because the Daoying would use them for themselves.
Frankly I like Hecaton's original premise. Doubly so because this whole malarkey about "ye but u lose stuff just by taking sectorial over vanilla" Is oftentimes moot as the new sectorials with the sexy salad links get access to most everything they need (RIP military orders...). I think the hacking game SHOULD be expanded to impact links more. As is, the fact that 2 factions can outright ignore hacking is rather galling, and it's depressing that this game has oh so many sexy big robot/mecha sculpts that just aren't worth the metal they are cast in from a game point of view. TAGs need a boost, and some things (links, E/M, amongst others) need to be looked at again. I'm hoping this will happen eventually, as I hate feeling that I either need to: A. Bring the link team from hell in the good sectorial (oftentimes TAK a present) B. Play vanilla CA with all their link-busting tech (speculo, hacking, hidden deploy noctifier ML...)
I think the idea is fundementally bad. The premise is based on how link teams are really good (perhaps too good, according to OP?) and needs tools to be dealt with. The thing is though, the sectorials NEEDS those link in order to be relevant, in terms of power, because most sectorials dont hold a candle to their vanilla origin and the downsides of being limited via the sectorials options, is compensated by having access to link teams. Your suggestion would only make top tier armies even more obnoxious, which are Vanilla Haqq and Nomads (and a high ranking mention to Vanilla Aleph). Giving those armies the ability to casually disrupt links would set them even furhter apart from the other armies. Don't sacrifice overall exterior balance because the only true offender is honestly the KHD more than anything else. I used HD+ as well as AHD loads of time prior to HSN3, with great success. It's the retarded programs and bypass of Firewall that makes the KHD retarded and AHD a liability more than anything else. AHD were fine before.
I heard tales of HI and TAGs becoming completely obsolete due to AHD in some metas due to Oblivion more than anything else. It's funny how KHD were added to address that and primarily given to factions which didn't typically rely on HI or TAGs...
TAGs are good they just tend to be a bit all or nothing, so people are often a bit shy about running them.
We're not talking about nixing access to linkteams. We're talking about adding one more decent tool to counter them. This tool would require a large order investment, like Possession does. It would be on a single device, the AHD, adding a bit more offensive utility to it against something other than HI/TAGs. Exile exists already, and linkteams have not been destroyed by it. Adding it to AHDs, or even a mild version of it as has been suggested (that just breaks the link rather than Isolating) will not alter the balance of power against links too much. It -will- possibly help scale their effectiveness back a bit, if a players uses the right tools and invests a few order in the tactic. It's not game-breaking stuff we're talking about. It's game-balancing at best.
How big of an impact would it be to allow Assisted Fire and Enhanced Reaction to target TAGs as well? That way you would buff TAGs by means of hacking/support, and not just 'on its own'..
...... Yes... that's because literally only 1 model in the entire game has the program and it's not sitting on a model that has obnoxious repeater coverage like Moran's or the myriad of AHD platform that sticks on the midfield while being Infiltrated in a marker state. Honestly, it doesn't sound like any of you have thought this through.
Yes, the tales becomes even more mythical when you consider the fact that the forums exploded with bombastic tales of how "useless" the AHD was, meanwhile you had the conflicting reports from tournaments, where people & TO's even discussed the idea of nerfing Oblivion because it was b0rken OP or something.
Well, this particular tale was the/a Polish meta prior to HSN3 and KHD, but I will not lie that I find it very hard to move HI even in a setting where AHD/HD+ are "useless" as a single Oblivion source in a Repeater-rich environment effectively means I have to send in a KHD before I can do anything near a Repeater. Speaking of course from a Yu Jing perspective, where being hackable is the norm rather than exception.
We're talking about a lower-level version of Exile that just breaks the team, doesn't isolate anyone. Carbonite, while strong, does not ruin the game. Neither will being able to break a link. As for Exile itself, I predict it will appear again on at least one more unit. Also, the availability of a counter to links that requires use of orders and has a limited effect that's easily reversed on the active turn won't unbalance the game. That's what we're doing right now. You have some good points. Keep the feedback constructive and maybe better ideas will come of it.
I mean to be on all AHDs (or even a few new AHD+'s) youd want it to be a fairly toned down version. Like reset able or whatever. And it still leaves AHDs as KHD bait. But its definately true that fire teams should remain strong - being the main mechanical reason to take a sectorial over vanilla.
A lot of the hacking programs people complain about are very all-or-nothing; whichever side you're on it's a big gamble any time someone pulls out oblivion, overlord, etc. Temporary immobilization or single points of damage are still very strong, but they don't swing a game in quite the same way. I'd love a flash pulse equivalent program that applied the stunned state for a single turn.
