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Ceiling walking

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Gunmage, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    Okay, this is a really stupid question,.. but why can't one walk on the ceiling?

    I can't find anything in the rules that would prohibit declaring Move while standing on ceiling. You can't Climb there, as it is not a vertical surface, but as far as the Move skill and General Movement Rules wording is concerned - as long as your base is "fully in contact" with the surface (which, as we know from the Climb skill, does not require the mini not falling when you let go of it) and you're on horisontal surface - you're golden. And I failed to find any definition of "horizontal" in the rules that would exclude ceilings from that class. What am I doing wrong?
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    'Under', not 'on'?
     
  3. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I can see the argument been made, but I feel the situation is so terrain and situational specific that could be done as a house rule.
     
  4. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    Yeah. Moving inverted.
     
  5. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Presumption in the rules has to be that a model on a horizontal surface is upright. And the Climbing rules are written with that presumption.

    Otherwise just deploy troopers (and equipment) standing upside down on ceilings if you have a building in your deployment zone.
     
  6. FatherKnowsBest

    FatherKnowsBest Red Knight of Curmudgeon

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    Sure, got Climbing Plus? If no, then the question is a "really stupid question" I feel.
     
  7. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    • Climbing Plus allows the user to move along vertical surfaces as if executing a normal Movement on horizontal ground.
    • Climbing Plus allows its user to declare other Short Movement Skills or Short Skills (Move + BS Attack, for example) while moving along or holding onto a vertical surface.
    Pretty sure that doesn't cover movement on ceilings, which are obviously not vertical.

    Regarding the stupidity of the question - I got asked pretty much this by a newbie, and found out I got nothing to support my answer "nope, cannot do that". And I was pretty sure that I did see that somewhere in the rules, but nope, no such thing. Other games I play say outright "if your mini cannot stand on its own in some place and no rule permits such placement - cannot go there", so the problem doesn't exist in those games, but Infinity is different.
     
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  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I would argue climbing is the exception with miniature placement, show me your minis upside down please :stuck_out_tongue:

    Edit: does anyone actually move their minis vertically with base on the surface for climbing?
     
  9. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    Well, anyone NOT doing this is not playing by the rules:
    And General Movement rules have that bit about "base fully in contact with surface".
     
  10. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    You pretty much need to deal with there being a list of known blind spots or assumptions that the rules don’t spell out:
    • Things stand upright on horizontal surfaces
    • The ground, rooftops and other flat surfaces aren’t scenery.
    • How to resolve conflicts between different rules
    • Permissive rules
    That list of blind spots is going to be different for different rulebooks.

    Take something like the Warmachine/Hordes rules and try to find a statement concerning whether you put models on the table upright with the base contacting the table, or whether upside down is okay as well. Every single illustration in the rulebook will show models upright with the base on the table, but nothing in the text will tell you to do that.
     
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  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I suspect 99% of the player base is just measuring from top to bottom and placing it or marking/remembering position on said vertical surface, the books method seems insane and overly fumblicated
     
  12. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    We always played it that way that climbing plus allows climbing on ALL surfaces, even under ceilings. Think about the Zen Terrain Shipping Tower. We let drones with climbing plus move under the platform as well.

    "Playing by the rules" or just playing like the author maybe intended the game to be like are two things in my opinion. When N3 was created they maybe just didn't think about certain corner cases and just missed them in the rules. That doesn't mean they are not allowing it. ;)
     
  13. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    Ah, that's what you meant. No, we don't physically drag the models along the walls when climbing (or on the floor when moving) - but if we need to check LoS on them while on a wall, we do it by the book: put its base on the wall and hold it there while checking.
    Well, my gaming group played it this way, too. But there's always a chance that one guy will appear and say "Well you played wrong, rulebook doesn't say that". And there are some cases where it isn't obvious what "rules as intended" are - like in this case, are you supposed to only be able to walk on walls, but not inverted horizontal surfaces, or anything that isn't level ground is fair game for climbing? The part where you can't just declare Move standing on the ceiling is trivial, though =)
     
    #13 Gunmage, Feb 28, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  14. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    http://infinitythewiki.com/de/Scenery_Building_Profile
    • Unless specified to the contrary, the roof of a Scenery Structure will correspond with the Type of Construction indicated in its Scenery Building Profile.
    Interestingly, the fluff beneath Climbing Plus supports the Ceiling Walk*:
    Homicidal aliens lurking on the ceiling of a spaceship, soon to get the drop on their prey.

    (* As does Lionel Richie's Feeling)
     
    #14 daszul, Feb 28, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  15. b1ackheart

    b1ackheart Well-Known Member

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    I now need to go and make a zero G spaceship board to allow this... Maybe part of a Caravanserie
     
  16. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Concerning “the roof isn’t scenery” see:
    • “Model on rooftop doesn’t get cover due to standing on the rooftop even though the edge of the rooftop is blocking line of sight”.
    • “AD trooper lands on rooftop area”.
    and other game interactions.
     
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