Mass Remote VIRD

I don't actually think that VIRD is the best place to build this.

Either NCA or Acontecimento seem to offer a better base for a remote-focused list.

 

I tend to agree. VIRD can run remotes, but it comes at the cost of effective ARO/link options. They also don't have as strong of synergy with EVO mulebot since they have don't drop AD or have as much AVA for remotes. Lastly, VIRD has good hackers, but they are primarily "get work done" hackers. A ZC KHD or crocmen AHD aren't as reliant on repeaters to be effective.

 

I'm interested in the idea. I agree that it can be better elsewhere, but not by a huge margin and having another (possibly unexpected) list archetype in Varuna could be valuable.

 

This was a very very first-draft version of a list I had for the concept, albeit doesn't go all in and just limits itself to two Bulleteers (which could also easily be one Bulleteer and one Sierra). This came out of an idea about maximising the low-SWC high burst weapons available to Varuna so is not as strictly a mass remote list but I think it has some potential.

Swick
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GROUP 1 9 1
KAMAU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28)
BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
KAMAU Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)
KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

GROUP 2 6 2
KAMAU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28)
BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
HELOT MILITIAMAN Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
HELOT MILITIAMAN Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

If you want to go REM heavy, I would suggest following list

Varuna Immediate Reaction Division
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GROUP 1 10
KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
KAMAU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28)
FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
FUSILIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)

GROUP 2 5 4
HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
ZULU-COBRA Lieutenant (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

6 SWC | 300 Points
Open in Infinity Army

 

Ok, so if I WAS going to follow through on a remote-heavy build for Varuna then it might look like:

Varuna Immediate Reaction Division
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GROUP 1 10
PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14)
KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)

GROUP 2 7 1
PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
ZULU-COBRA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

Which seems workable, but isn't going to be as strong as the equivalent built on NCA or Acon from a remote perspective (even if that Fireteam does keep it strong overall).

 

Actually, if you're going that deep on REMs, what does NCA or Aconte actually do any better? It's almost all common elements but Varuna has the slightly busted Kamau sniper.

Edit: the more I think about this the less reason I can see for NCA or Aconte to actually be better than Varuna in any meaningful sense at REM-heavy lists. Varuna even has the best selection of vanilla hackers thanks to both the Fusilier and the Kamau, and the best Machinist of the three (by a tiny margin). And then the rest of the list can be any combination of Helots (who are incredible), Kamau (who are incredible) and if you want even a linkable missile REM (if you don't want the kamau and want to maximise the utility of your machinist, which neither NCA nor Varuna can do).

 

Nice to see you in the PanO section, @RobertShepherd . I enjoyed reading about your Cancon success... Nice to have you lending your thoughts to PanO again too.

I think NCA, Acon and VIRD each bring a slightly different, unique twist to running REM-heavy.

Acon's a nice route if you want your REM-heavy to also be Hacking-heavy. Nagas are good Hackers, able to bring both KHD and AHD on reasonably costed platforms, and you still get to keep the benefit of mines on them as well. Scylla's pretty unique too, fitting the REM-heavy theme nicely and also adding some unique Hacking capability too. AVA3 Fugazi is sweet of course. Perhaps most importantly, Acon gets mines, which are really helpful for keeping Camo and template wielders back... Those units are pretty strong vs REM builds. They get a strong Machinist too (though I don't expect it to be doing much frontline activity.) I think Acon also has a superior trio of Naga, Peacemaker, Dart. These three compliment each other incredibly well... The possibilities between the three of them are amazing. Peacemaker can use the Auxbot to sweep mines or force open defense, leading the way for Dart. Dart can use her durability and mobility to do the same for the Peacemaker, if there are juicy shotgun or flamethrower targets. The Naga can follow up to push buttons, or defend them both with mines. The three of them can crack pretty much any target in the game. EVO is good here too, since you can maximize all the bonuses... Burst 2, AVA3 Fugazi, Akalis dropping in (not great but still possible) as well as Hacking re-rolls.

NCA's particular brilliance is that they can field an enormous horde of cheap, useful troops to supplement a REM build. 5 Fusiliers, 3 Fugazi, 2 CSUs, 2+ Auxilia are all stellar units, and while you could replicate the same effect of mass Orders in VIRD or Acon by just loading up on linetroops, the NCA version provides really strong utility for the points you pay. Auxbots are great, CSUs are great, they can all be Specialists, and all fill their role in defense or light attack also. On top of those, you get the Garuda, which also plays nicely into a REM build and is a real nail-driver if you find a gap for it. Hidden Deployment on both the Hexa KHD and Hexa Sniper are also nice, providing support in (particularly their AHD) is very strong. EVO's also nice here... AVA3 Fugazi, Hacking re-rolls, and while I wouldn't gamble on dropping in the Garuda, you can do that too.

VIRD's big offering, as you rightly say, is the MSV2 Kamau. One challenge I see with REM-heavy VIRD is that VIRD's defensive assets are either pretty expensive (Zulu Cobra Jammer, Croc Mines) or Irregular (Helots.) So as you load up on defense to keep your enemy out of your DZ, you eat into the points that you could be spending on REMs. a 14 point Acon Regular Minelayer or a 12 point SS L1 CSU are good for both DZ defense and for cheerleading. VIRD doesn't really have that kind of counterpart though, so you just have to keep your eyes open that someone doesn't get a Chain Rifle or HFT into your DZ where all your big-based, low PH, low ARM REMs are hiding.

 

In addition to the extra hacking power the new Deva AHD offers to all these mobile repeaters that are running around.

 

Hey man, thanks. :)

Agree with your breakdown of the sectorial differences in this archetype, by the by. There are notable strengths in each that you've laid out really well, although I'm still skeptical that a case can be made for JCJF's claim that a Varuna list built around the REM core will be weaker than NCA or Aconte, rather than just different.

 

This is a little tangential to the original topic, but has anyone ever had much success running Bulleteers of either armament without the intent of ever putting supportware on them?

For context, the Naga KHD in particular is a particular favorite element of mine on its own merits and to casually authorise REMs, but in Aconte if you actually want supportware you're looking at nearly doubling your original investment on the Bulleteer to elevate it up to the build-your-own-swiss-guard level gunfight (not that the Aconte hacker is bad, but it pushes your list further in a particular direction). I'm just curious as to how well accepting half measures at half cost has worked for people.

 

I've got a single-list 400pt (SpecOps, Soldiers of Fortune) tournament I'm playing in tomorrow (missions are Deadly Dance, Biotechvore, Highly Classified, and Hunting Party - the TO intentionally chose the most disparate missions he could) and I'm running 2x Sierras, 2x Fugazis along with 3x Helots and 2x Kamau MSRs.

It should be interesting.

 

If I were to take a hacker for support ware in Acon I would probably just leap for the EVO hacker or Scylla. probably the EVO. that way you can synergize with Akals aswell.

imo, bulleteers don't need Supportware to be effective. the less investment in them the better

 

My incredible deductive powers are telling me you're about... three hours to the west of me. Good luck! :)

Yep, this is pretty much what interests me. Just the extent to which people think they do or don't need the supportware and how well they've performed without relative to with.

 

In a meta where LGLs are a nearly essential pick, the 1SWC for the LGL+Hacker on the Regular isn't that much of an investment.

But, @RobertShepherd asks if a Bulleteer can still be worthwhile without supportware?

Sure.

It's usually worth the extra investment to get it the upgrade 'though.

As to doubts about my comments on Acon and NCA over Varuna for remote heavy builds? Three Fugazi is argument enough in favour of both to be blunt. But the lack of an option for a second Peacemaker also hurts if you want to push the midfield more. And as @barakiel has explained so well, the support options are cheaper elsewhere.

Not that I've knocked one together it's better than I thought, but I would prefer the NCA or Acon versions myself.

 

Could you unpack that a little? I'm across a lot of the dialogue around them in the Australian context where a lot of people considered them to be a powerful pick specifically in the context of the CanCon mission mix (which I'm in mixed agreement with, but never mind that), but calling them essential is new to me. What's the rationale?

 

Order spam, sniping, Designated Targets...

There's plenty of reasons to want one, and the Regular comes with an SWC-free Hacking Device on top.

 

Fair enough. :)

I've been following your Acontecimento thread for the last few days with interest and unless I've missed it, you aren't using the LGL regular in any of your lists there. Did you just want to try other stuff out first, or do they all fit in the 'almost' part of 'almost essential'?