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Immobilized and Change Facing; what is a Short Skill?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Mahtamori, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Can I declare Change Facing, Hack Transport Aircraft or Counterstrike while Immobilized?

    From IMM-1:
    • Troopers in the Immobilized-1 state cannot declare Short Movement Skills other than Discover.
    • Troopers in this state cannot declare Attacks nor any Short Skills other than Reset, Regeneration, Sensor, AutoMediKit, or those that state so explicitly in their description.
    • Immobilized troopers cannot declare Entire Order Skills.
    Becasue none of the skills in the question has the Short Skill label (they are all noted as ARO instead of BS Attack's "Short Skill/ARO"), they don't qualify as a prohibited skill - unless an ARO is by definition always a Short Skill that can only be used as an ARO, which I can't find.

    If you can declare these skills while IMM-1; what makes me unable to declare Dodge as an ARO rather than Short Skill? (Or any of the other non-Attack "Short Skill/ARO" skills.)

    Bonus question: can you use Warning to turn around?
     
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  2. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    While your troopers are immobilized, you have enough time for Counterstrike, yes.


    sorry :upside_down_face:
     
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  3. Vtarin

    Vtarin Member

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  4. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Maybe prevent you to declare ARO the part of the rule where explicits say: "Troopers in this state cannot declare Attacks nor any Short Skills other than Reset, Regeneration, Sensor, AutoMediKit, or those that state so explicitly in their description. "


    Is Dodge in the list or has an exception in the description? No and No. I think the problem come in the fact Regeneration and AutoMedikit aren't short skills. A redaction error maybe?
     
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    People. Focus on the first question. Don't just answer the follow-up.

    Can you declare Change Facing while Immobilized?
    And what about skills that are not Short Movement Skills, Short Skills or Entire Order Skills, but only ARO skills?
     
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  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    RAW they're not short skills so you nothing specifically prevents you from declaring them.

    But that's *really* weird and I feel that they're not supposed to be able to be declared.
     
  7. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Good question.
    To clarify the question:

    'Change Facing' is labeled as ARO, but not as Short Movement Skill (like e.g. Discover), even though it has the keyword 'Movement'.
    It is 'just' an ARO.
    If the boxes' colours mean something: Discover is labeled as Short Movement Skill and ARO, but the box is just blue (Short Movement),
    while the Discover box is yellow/orange (ARO).
    __________________________________

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Skills
    Both Common and Special Skills can also be divided into:

    Automatic Skills Automatic Skills are those that can be employed without expending an Order or ARO. Consequently, these Skills do not require a Roll.
    ARO Skills ARO Skills are those that Troopers may perform as an ARO.
    Deployment Skills Deployment Skills are those used during the Deployment Phase. These Skills must observe the usual Deployment rules except when otherwise stated.
    Entire Order Skills To declare one of these Skills, the user must expend one Entire Order. These Skills can only be declared in Active Turn.
    Short Movement Skills To declare one of these Skills, the user must expend one Short Movement Skill.
    Short Skills To declare one of these Skills, the user must expend one Short Skill.
    __________________________________

    All this seems to indicate that you can use all ARO skills that are only ARO skills and nothing else (yellow/orange box) while in IMM-1 state.
     
  8. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    There is discord with the facts:
    * Reset and Sensor are Short Skills so they're in the right list.
    *. Regeneration and AutoMedikit are Entire Order Skills so they should be an exception to the next bullet point.

    Hmm. Looking at the Spanish,
    • Aquellas tropas que se encuentran en estado Inmovilizado-1 no puede realizar ninguna Habilidad Corta de Movimiento excepto Descubrir.
    • Una tropa en estado Inmovilizado no puede realizar ningún Ataque ni ninguna Habilidad Corta excepto Reset, Regeneración, Sensor, o AutoMediKit o aquellas que así lo indiquen en su descripción.
    • Las tropas en estado Inmovilizado no pueden realizar ninguna Habilidad de Orden Completa.
    (I wonder how much "Habilidad Corta" and "Habilidad Corta de Movimiento" explain about how certain sections of the rulebook are written....)

    And given other infamous examples of skills like cancellation clause in Camo:
    • The Camouflaged trooper declares a Skill other than Cautious Movement or a Short Movement Skill that does not require a Roll (except Alert).
    where various skills must have changed classification during development.

    You're trying to claim that skill declared in ARO stops being what it is, if it happens to belong to multiple categories. An "Short Skill/ARO" skill is both an ARO skill and a Short Skill. There aren't two different Dodge skills.
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I used that as a way of arguing absurdity in the original thread, however do note that "/" stands for "or" in this game, not "and", meaning Dodge is either a Short Skill or an ARO. What I was trying to claim (in the original thread) with this line of argument is that allowing skills only listed as ARO means you're opening up for this argument.
     
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  10. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I think you may have spotted a gap in the technical wording. I also think that you can’t declare Change Facing in ARO while immobilized. It looks like a couple places should say short skill / ARO instead.
     
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  11. Confusion

    Confusion Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, as written, Immobilized doesn't prevent you from declaring ARO-only skills. Which is kind of a problem, since Engage is also one of those, and I'm sure that isn't intended.
     
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