1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Saladin - is he worth the trouble?

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Varsovian, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    385
    I was wondering: is Saladin worth of buying and using?

    He seems to have some nice stats, but he also has the Strategos skill... which seems to be a double-edge sword to me. Sure, it gives some bonuses, but it also requires for Saladin to be made the Lieutenant... which would be obvious to an opponent, as soon as they realize you're using Strategos. And that would put a huge bullseye on Saladin...

    So, what do you think? Is he useful or not?
     
  2. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    430
    You can hide him with a Holoprojector model (Hafza or Ayyar, or even a Bashi deployed in your DZ) so he's not that vulnerable. You could also take a Chain of Command Farzan as an insurance policy. I think he's fantastic if you want to pump orders into a couple of really tough attack pieces, especially if your order pools are very skewed (full primary pool, tiny secondary pool, or even a Limited Insertion list). He's also no slouch - NWI, ARM & BTS 3, Nanopulser...he's also a Repeater, which is kind of interesting...

    Most of the time I'll include him in a Limited Insertion list. Outside of that, usually not but that's mainly a matter of personal preference. He's a solid unit.
     
    Masterofmelee and xagroth like this.
  3. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    1,674
    Is this a serious question?
    :P
    As you can see in my avatar, I really like Saladin.
    Really.

    How not to be a fan of this tough competent officer?

    He is my go-to LT in tournaments for 250 and more pts. First time he didn't command my troops in a big Polish tournament was last year, when in 3 of 5 games I was testing new Tarik. Still Saladin IS the best LT we have.
    He works fantastically with infiltrators and even better with Djabel - letting you put the reserve after your enemy, and it is a reserve of 2 guys. They work so freaking horribly good, that even when I didn't had Djabel, people was deploying terrified and defensive, thinking that Sal will send his Angel of Death into battle at the end :D

    He is also quite tough, having decent stats, NVI et cetera. There were battles, in which he had to take matters into his own hands - for example killing some enemies and even finishing off Avatar (yeah, one of the luckiest and best actions in my gaming history :P).
    And, as stated above, you can hide him using Hafza for example - I always take one decoy. Sometimes two. And I lost Sal only in few games in several dozens of battles.

    I highly recommend at least trying him :)


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
  4. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,006
    Likes Received:
    5,384
    It's definitely true that Saladin is considerably tougher than you think. If he goes on suppression fire as part of a combined order you don't lose the utility of Strategos and he becomes a pretty strong backline defender. BS 13 in Haqq is good, so is ARM 3 and NWI.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  5. Balewolf

    Balewolf It's all opinion

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    540
    He's one of the easiest obvious LTs to hide int he game with all of the Holoprojector stuff you can do. You can easily have 6 Saladins on the board at once. As said before, you can take the chain of command Farzan for not that much as well, plus it's an infiltrating specialist! What's not to love? His repeater has also come in handy quite a few times, as opponents won't be sure if it's a fake, and have to play around it.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  6. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    761
    Likes Received:
    671
    Saladin isn't a model you toss in last because you have space. You build a list with him in mind. My preferred list with him is Farazan CoC, Fiday & Hussein Al-Djabel,with a lot of Halqa FOs and infiltrators. Your aim is go first. Your infiltrators deploy forward and let your opponent deploy in a way to eat them. Most likely either ready to ARO, in which you can usually deploy the Fidays behind them and risk the WIP role, or they stay hidden where your Fiday can stealth then 1 at a time. Deploying out of the deployment zone. There are times 1 Fiday is open, but the other is not. Which is where they cover each other with smoke. Ideally you use a coordinated order to re-impersonate forcing your opponent to waste his now precious orders on discovering them on their turn. Preferably in a spot where you can cover them. As an added level of coverage I tend use a TR HMG to cover the backs of the infiltrators. Just so my infiltrators don't get flanked by an AD troop.

    With this tactic all your order are spend on Fiday, the infiltrators are already near objectives / control zone and won't need much. I love the Reduced Combat groups rule in ITS season 9. It lets Fidays go first with 11 orders.

    If you have the CoC, then Saladin can be used aggressively. I've seen people keep Saladin & the CoC hidden, this is a waste. Treat the CoC model as your Lt, and use Saladin Aggressively turn 2-3. Your CoCs only goal should be to count for a zone.

    Without Saladin having 2 Fidays is problematic. You want them to cover each other. but if one gets deployed before you opponents reserve its a bit of a tell. being able to place 2 after everything is deployed lets you really pick and chose the best approach for the fidays. I've often had opponents sacrifice a good reserve placement, just to impede my impersonator marker.
     
  7. norsecompass

    norsecompass Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    11
    You can take a lot more than 6! My count is 14! Saladin-o-ramma!

    Yes he is good. He may not fit into a really finely tuned list due to his points, but I always love using him. He's no slouch for defending the backfield either with BS 13, the ability to suppress, NWI, and having a repeater for any HI, REM, TAG, or hackers trying to sneak up on him.

    Don't take him just to pull off the first turn alpha strike with double Fidays though, you still will only have the chance to take 1st turn aprox. 50% of the time due to the nature of Lt. Rolls. But being able to place those TR bots after the opponent has set up is nice, or make sure your Djan. is in the right place to cover an avenue your opponent is going to move up is crucial.
     
  8. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    385
    Okay, I love you guys, but I don't understand half of these abbreviations :D

    BTW. Please explain the Holoprojection trick to me..? I know that Ayyar can do that, but Saladin?
     
  9. norsecompass

    norsecompass Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    11
    You make another trooper with Holoprojector, like the Hafza, appear to be Saladin. It is the Holoprojector level one skill.
    • While in Holoprojector L1 state, players don't place the Holoprojector L1 bearer's model but the model of any other trooper (known as the imitated model) fitting the Holoprojector L1Requirements and declaring which weapon option it is replicating from the imitated model's Troop Profile.
     
  10. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    162
    Fidays can wreak enormous damage in limited insertion, because people don't have enough guys to guard their entire deployment zone, and each order lost hurts so bad. So in a limited insertion, I'd definitely consider running a Saladin list. Obvious other choices in that list would be an Hassassin Ayyar, to make 3 fake Saladins, Hussein al-Djabel, and a Fiday with mines.
     
    Myomer and T. Rex Pushups like this.
  11. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    1,791
    Since there might be newer players around, I think it's worth mentioning that Ayyar can only cosplay 3 Saladins effectively when you go second. At the begining of your active turn you must specify that Holoechoes are, in fact, holoechoes, including real Ayyar under holoecho marker. At that point opponent will not know who real Ayyar is, but he will know which 3 of Saladins aren't really Saladins.

    But then again, the point is to ensure Saladin survives if you lose the initiative roll and don't get to go first, so w/e. It does also work during deployment phase so there's that.

    If you deploy Ayyar in Holo1 state, then he can keep going as a decoy for a longer period of time, although that means you have to keep your 40 pts model not doing anything suspicious, not to mention anything that outright reveals it, for that time. Then there are Hafzas who can do the same.

    Oh, and remember that you "activate" Holo1 during list building since you must complete courtesy list before beginning a match. That may be limiting if you play series of matches, for different reasons...

    Which ones then? :)

    On a side note, Saladin and Holo together is a great commercial idea. How would you otherwise potentially sell the same mini half-dozen times to a single player while making available shenanigans cool enough that they don't mind? :P
     
    #11 Barrogh, Jan 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  12. GrimWulf

    GrimWulf New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am new, so please correct if I'm wrong, but as I read it in the wiki at least, it says that if you are using models to impersonate, then you only place a marker next to one of the 3 models. So the opponent would know they're facing a Holoprojector, which should be obvious by the fact there are more than 1 Saladin, but they still wouldn't know which one it was.
     
  13. Masterofmelee

    Masterofmelee Japanese Secessionist
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    36
    Saladin is an excellent piece.

    Cannon Fodder makes an excellent point. Whether Limited insertion or Soldiers of Fortune, or Regular ITS missions he is a unit you build your army around.

    Your opponent gets zero reserves, you get two, and an extra order to use on your force.

    This means that if your opponent deploys first, you see his full hand. If you deploy first, you hold back two essential pieces to counter their deployment. Mastering deployment and counter deployment will be essential.

    Holoprojector is an excellent strategy to keep Salidin safe. 1-2 decoys is all you really need.

    I wouldnt use him offensively, but in the right situation he is still no push over.
     
  14. Skarsnik

    Skarsnik Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    12
    This marker have to be placed at your first turn not during desployment. if your opponent goes first then the marker is not in battlefield during the opponent turn (
    Usually is useed only level 1 and not the 2 to do that trick during the 3 turns).
     
  15. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    828
    Likes Received:
    812
    In short, yes he is. As others here have explained, he brings a powerful rule with him and for that he is worth taking. But he is no autoinclude, because of his cost and vulnerabilities. He is a perfect example of a profile that defines Infinity for me, take what you like and make it work. Mutts are a nobrainer when it comes to listbuilding and a Bounty Hunter not worth trying for most people, but Saladin ist "just" a good useable profile, if you like to include him.
     
  16. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    385
    Okay, thanks for advice! I'll be buying him, then. :)

    (hmmmmm, it seems that I'm basically buying a quarter of all Infinity miniatures...)
     
    xagroth likes this.
  17. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    828
    Likes Received:
    812
    If you are anything like me, you will have a hard time not buy anything that is looking great....which is a lot in the Infinity range;)
     
  18. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    1,791
    The problem is that Holoechoes are markers, and even if they were representing something else during deployment, the opponent still has a right to know that markers are markers since he should be able to hold AROs against markers. The way I understand it, the act of "placing a Holo marker" is supposed to be your declaration that entire group of targets are markers generated by Holo2.
     
  19. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,420
    Likes Received:
    5,380
    The idea is to use the holo2 markers as body doubles for Saladin, not offensive pieces. Once they have fulfilled that role, however, you don't care.

    So you can place 2 Bashi Bazouks on the table as 6 saladins, now there are 7, and the enemy knows 2 of them are not the real saladin. 20% chance to get the good one!
    Throw an Ayyar in the mix...
     
  20. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    1,791
    I mean, yes, but there was a remark on how the Ayyar's disguise won't hold for long. If confusing enemy deployment and/or his first turn (if you go second) is your goal, then Ayyar works.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation