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[POLL] IA : Are we enjoying it

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by ObviousGray, Jan 16, 2019.

?

Our long waited sectorial is...

  1. Great

    33 vote(s)
    30.6%
  2. Good

    36 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. So-So

    16 vote(s)
    14.8%
  4. Meh

    4 vote(s)
    3.7%
  5. Not that fond about IA

    5 vote(s)
    4.6%
  6. Cheers for the vanilla!

    14 vote(s)
    13.0%
  1. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    Its been a two monthes since our Forums got brighter (well at least for me). Lemme ask you fellow YJ players something deep;


    Are we enjoying IA?

    Because I do. I'm even prepping IA roster for ITS, and I am dang wanna know how do you guys feel about it.
     
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  2. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    As an addition to Vanilla, it's great. There are a lot of tools in there that help to mitigate some of Vanilla's more glaring weaknesses, and add variety and potency to its strengths. The Hulang is just glorious fun.

    But as far as IA itself goes, I haven't really been bothered to actually play a game with it yet. It looks far too heavily reliant upon the backbone of a single link to be particularly interesting on its own, unfortunately. There are a few stinkers in there, like the Liu Xing, Shang Ji, and Guijia, which don't really deserve a spot in Vanilla or IA, and it certainly does hurt that variability in IA's more limited unit selection. But the power in the faction as a whole looks solid, and it's nice to see a faction that doesn't have to rely on order spam to be efficient. It's just a matter of being boring.
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think the tower build for IA (meaning a single strong mixed link with lots of TA) is a bit of a trap unless the table supports it. As soon as the table sections off gameplay and allows your opponent the ability to move around your death squad it becomes possible for them to play delaying action with your link and run around you to claim objectives. I've so far found this list to be hard to actually complete objectives with.
     
  4. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    Shang Ji might need some more attention; Definitely no cool man for Zuyong Pain Train, but I found him quite useful on Zhanshi filler link. BS 16 5 shots are not that joke.

    Bout Liu Xing, I give scores for his resilence; hes not that bad. Guijia.. welp.

    As your opiniom, IMO Zuyong order pain train is the trap, or a certain pick for IA. Recently I'm fielding the Zhanshis more often; they are way better, opens up resources like Zhencha or our budget Haris team which flips 5 shots of HMG.

    Static link supported with FP rems, iced with ML bot works fine.
     
  5. BigBadFox

    BigBadFox Well-Known Member

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    The thing for me is... I just play that style of list already with Ikari (Tanko+Keisotsu, Wu Ming HMG Haris...).
     
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  6. Alkasyn

    Alkasyn Well-Known Member

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    Seeing how my regular YJ opponent refuses to play with proxies, I would say - no idea" to the original question.

    Big mistake on CB's part to wait so long with hyped up releases.
     
  7. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    For me IA is great as a sectorial, new playstyle with strong units but balanced (strong pain train, good specialists but low anti TO sources, hacking ofc, not to many templates) . Although the difficulty of playing it high in comparation with IS or vanilla. High risk high reward.

    Also i think we need more time to find new ways to play it out of full pain train, (my most succesful list ara about double haris +Hac Tao).

    PS: i see it's a kind of dogma here that the Liu Xiu is bad, but in my opinion (and maybe beacuse my meta is low in hacking) it is worth it even in vanilla. The second wound + the operative multi rifle option is a very solid option.
     
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  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    For the weekend's tournament I brought two lists but only played the one called Tai Sheng post mortem, the lists lived up to their names because Tai Sheng was the only one to die consistently for a grand total losses of 1 Zhencha, 1 Zuyong HMG, 1 Weibing and 3 Tai Sheng, my matches scored 4-2, 3-3, and 0-5. With well over 100 points more VP than my opponents IA's tower build clearly does killing and surviving well, but preventing a Naga from sneaking past the link to my DZ to fetch two civies in Rescue while I spent well over 8 orders killing a single Proxy sniper and then posturing with a Dakini link preventing me from picking civcies up... well...

    I'll need to bring not only a Haidao sniper, but also a Haidao KHD on my adventures in the future and with IA's unique wildcard restrictions that's hard.
    Not to mention that Zhencha killed lots in two games (until that Proxy shot 'im in the back when I tried to dislodge the Danavas and obvious LT inside a building with the Zhencha).

    In short, to bring a full toolkit in IA I don't think the TA approach is viable. It's possible to bring 'em but it's not possible to bring 'em in the same link due to the Wildcard restrictions - not to mention that with 200pts in the same link you will have a very limites presence.

    Next time I'll force myself to play vastly differently.

    Well, maybe. Risk is next time is Nordic Masters and I kind of want something I'm comfortable with.
     
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  9. Manfred_VR

    Manfred_VR Well-Known Member

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    This is just my opinion, I played only one match with IA 'cause I'm more vanilla oriented, I believe it's a good sectorial army, a lot of orders despite many not so cheap new options, but, just beacuse I'm a main faction player, I vote cheers for vanilla.
    Mowang and Daoying are perfect for YJ, with 4 kuang + celestial now we've a lot of orders.
     
  10. Sedral

    Sedral Jīnshān Task Force Officier

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    I have mixed feelings:

    - I'm still salty about the whole semi-HI thing. After playing around with those HI with 1.5 wounds it became obvious that it's just point min-maxing for all of them but the zhencha where it's an intended weakness. If they found a way to make Hospitallers a few points cheaper they could have done the same for the brand new yu-jing HIs.

    - List building is kinda frustrating. Everything is expensive so you run out of points very quickly, you have to deal with the "limited insertion dilemna" so you also risk running out of space, and with the obvious sectorial's weakness there's a bunch of tool you NEED (Goncheng and Haidao KHD mostly) before you can think about those you want, and sometime those conflict because of wildcard restriction.

    - I don't like that i need to rely on a character to make the "faceless heroes" army works the way it feels it's supposed to work. I can understand that Yu-jing was character starved, but honestly Tai-sheng profiles should have been given to Shang-jì. It's a minor grievance yes, but a grievance nonetheless.

    + The playstyle is awesome. TacAw + LtL2/NCO shenanigans makes the sectorial quite resilient to order attrition, and never feeling order starved with an elite list is really pleasant.

    + SWC discount. I can't stress this enough, this is the one thing that makes me comeback to IA everytime i make lists despite how frustrating it is. I can finally play a list with an hacker, an HI link with an HMG, a missile launcher and a tinbot, and still afford a 2SWC heavy weapon on the side. After 4 years playing ISS where SWC distribution was a nightmare it's just... refreshing.

    + The new units are all well rounded, and there's very few of their profiles i'd never consider (even the boarding shotgun and AHD zhencha are growing on me, and I plan to playtest them intensively). However, except for the daoying and the haidao i have a really hard time including them in my lists because while they're good they don't do anything I'd consider essential, and as i stated above I already struggle to fit the essential stuff!

    So yeah, ATM it's a "so-so" for me.
     
  11. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    +1
    Just this, the basics ( hadio KHD, HAido Sniper, Tac sense heavy weapon and people to fullfill the link just cost more than half of the list. The especializeted units from IA see more play in vanilla just for a point cost. Thats why i'm trying creative compos with wierd 3-4 man links or a lots of duos
     
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  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and that's really unfortunate for "the HI sectorial".


    The lists I keep writing look a lot like this:
    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    SHÀNG JÍ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 39)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    HǍIDÀO Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)

    4.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    With LT2 and TacA, I count 13 orders. 6 specialists, even!

    You can swap the Zhencha for a Liu Xing specialist by also swapping the Zuyong ML for the Shang Ji HRL, puts you to 300 on the nose.
     
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  13. REND

    REND Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy IA, not played enough of it but there is an upfront appeal to it that I like. The additional orders and that they can be spent on links makes them a very different army to play compared with other sectorial lists and the widespread decent ARM and BS 13 makes them a nicely even force when it comes to attacking pieces.

    Not happy with the 'not-quite' HI profiles but there's enough good stuff in there to let me list build and play games without feeling compromised by choosing to use this particular sectoral over another or vanilla.
     
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'll be the dissenting voice, then. I'm actually enjoying the not-quite-HI profiles. I think there's a unit missing that would be a really cheap HI, like if the Haidao was a full unit - remove Free Agent, remove D-Charges, remove the KHD and MSV2 on those profiles and give them some BTS decency for a base cost of roughly 23 with a weapon and profile spread that looks more like Zhansih. Skip giving them any TA or NCO profiles, even if it's the shit, and use this unit as the basic building block for 10-order lists that's focusing on Hac Tao and possibly Guijia.

    But! I am really not all that much of a fan of just how many drawbacks they built into the sectorial. It's like everything that'll make a player from another sectorial go "oh, that's good, I wish I had that" they also added a drawback.
    Each one is fine and dandy, but there's a lot of them. Zhencha is good, but can't face-tank a mine. Haidao are cheap and streamlined, but haven't got any BTS. Tactical Awareness is a great ability, but CB must really hates the other 12 Zuyong profiles. The sectorial has access to Guijia and Hac Tao, but with very little in the 15-25 point range for utility (see next line) it's difficult to build lists with them. Lots of units with Wildcard, but unlike the other sectorials with Wildcard you can only have 1 per team. Zhencha is good, make Dart at the same time. Show what a hard counter to IA looks like by releasing Tunguska just prior to IA.

    It's like they really, really, didn't want to be accused of codex creep with this particular sectorial.
     
  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    To be entirely fair, Rescue is probably an extreme example of a mission that is both badly designed and really doesn't favour a small elite army.
     
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  16. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Im not sold on the Mowang in Vanilla tbh. It's not that I find him to be a bad profile in any stretch but to me he's like the Grenzer in vanilla Nomads. The Grenzer has excellent stats but he's simply overshadowed by the Intruder being a +1 upgrade in every sense.

    Broadly speaking, the Mowang can be classified as an ARM5 HI with visual MOD's, in which case I just think the Hac Tao performs the same role but much better. Same ARM, better BS, better visual MOD's and a better gun, as well as Hidden Deployment and Marker State. I still think the Mowang is a viable pick though.
     
  17. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    Why not just use su-jian in vanilla?
     
  18. Borlois

    Borlois Yu Jing Imperial Service Agent

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    IA feels like a hammer which we can use to smash brutally, but with the enough trickery to do some nasty surprises. Perhaps it has weak points, but we can cover them quite good.
     
  19. HouseOfKings

    HouseOfKings Active Member

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    @Mahtamori I would love to see a Grunt-Equivalent for IA. Maybe they turned Zhanshi into baby Zuyong and used a dumbed down armor variant to cut costs and ramp up numbers after the Uprising, similar to what Spartan 4s were to Spartan 2s from Halo. I also completely agree that they were terrified of anything being super strong and baked a bunch of weaknesses into IA.
     
    #19 HouseOfKings, Jan 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  20. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    I won't vote as I haven't played them yet (or any flavor of YJ), but this where I am too. I've just been struggling to make a list I like, and that's put a hold on starting to collect any of the minis. I think the sectorial has potential. One thing I've been noticing is that some of these newer sectorials are really, really good at certain missions, but fall flat on their face in others. IA strikes me as a force I'd take to a more direct action/killy event, but not one I'd want to take to a more button pushing oriented event.
     
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