"Cheerleaders" are kind of in a weird place for me in MO as of right now – If I try to include too many and stretch orders I always end up with ~12 or 13. Which is sub optimal imo. Either that or I have a nice 15 orders and too few pieces that actually do anything. List building for MO is a real challenge, but I'm enjoying it to a certain degree. It can be really frustrating but I think given enough time we can hammer it out. I'm looking at TAGs more and more as almost a go-to unit if I want my list to have more orders, strangely enough.
I feel like you're comparing apples to sour grapes here. :) All joking aside, nobody stops at the LT stage, and 3 fusies isn't as good as other options. 17 orders, a bit combi rifle spammy, but it has a link team with specialist, 7 orders in the second group, 3 strong ARO pieces, and a Joan you can either use aggresively, or have sit in DZ until 3rd turn. Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 8 2 ORDER SERGEANT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GROUP 2 7 FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) SPEC. SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher + AUXBOT_1 / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) SPEC. SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher + AUXBOT_1 / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) 7 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army You can also drop down to 16 orders, and add in a Hospitaller Haris with Santiago Spitfire and OS filler. Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 2 ORDER SERGEANT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GROUP 2 7 FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 43) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
So, I've not said yet my opinion about our new/old sectorial army. I like many new options, linked FKs are amazing, Hospitallers haris, new Santiago profiles and the mighty Holy Sep. that now has sense. I'm not so happy about the loss of the fusiliers and the impossibility of doing the classic 3 magister + 2 Hosp link that was, in my opinion, really strong. Anyway, a great restyling, we need it and with so man y options, now it's really hard for me to do a list that satisfies my taste.
Reading all that I missed in this thread during the holidays was a bit of a chore in itself, yet interesting. I tend to agree with the analysis of @eciu @Skoll and @Judge Dredd about the real state of MO, maybe the hate for Teutons is a bit over 9000, yet almost deserved as CB woodenly treats the issue. My opinion, they are plain and simple bad. MO got some actual boosts yet at a lavish price tag. Santiagos are a godsend (pun inteded) band-aid, Seraph finally is a go, Montesa is interesting, Hospitaller haris amazing, KotHS a tax yet alluring and generally much more flexibility here and there is very nice. What puzzles me are some of the botched approaches to MO restyle chosen by CB. I'm ok with the gone Fusiliers and the Lt limitations. I get it and fluffwise as I disdain the idea of heathens in MO, less more as Lt, plus the theme of Knights Lt is cool. Even a subpar order efficiency that locks almost every list on LI could be understandable. Yet I really cannot wrap my head around these two, that are to me blatantly hamfisted: Crusader team nerf and no-TO no-g:sync Spec OS status of pariah. Ok to get rid off Magisters but wreck Joan link is a bit too much. And how on earth the Hacker and MSV L2 Spitfire Spec OS cannot join a OS team is beyond me! I understand the rationale beyond the Crusade Fireteam nerf still I don't like it, but these two Spec OS unlinkability, why? Ok the TO and g:sync ones, it's quite obvious but these two... every frigging sectorial out there got a LI hacker linkable option and MSV L2 LI linkable is quite common these days. To me is even a worst attempt at internal balance and competition than the mess with Teutons. ~ So much for pars destruens, here we go with pars construens as we had to play with what we get, how do you find this one? I tried to max out on SWC and points considering ITS and exploiting flexibility link formation, searching some answer to hacking/jamming/E/M still with everything inside knights in shiny armour theme . Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 3 KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) BROTHER KONSTANTINOS Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, CCW. (0 | 29) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) MAGISTER KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 32) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
It's not bad list, but again it's "only" 10 orders, getting out of DZ is even harder than previous Hosp+Mag. Also I would love something done about Konstantinos price (Assault Pistol + Combi). Better not make mistakes (or eat crits). Also: Speculo will have a field day (this list will fold against Avatar+Speculo).
I will bring them. Just for the sake of making armies more varied. Even though missions rather suggest bringing NCA.
Heck I quote you on every single word, yet to me currently MO drives hard to LI, bar choosing to go full trashy order monkeys that we actually got few of, and anyway we end in th 13/14 bracket. Moreover I tried two quite similar LI iterations around Jeanne V1 and V2 and Crusade fireteam- as she's quite frankly the reasons I started MO, La Pucelle d'Orléans > Deus Vult. How they fare in your opinion guys? Spoiler: Jeanne and friends Crusade Link V1 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 49) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 31) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) BLACK FRIAR MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 30) SPEC. SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher + AUXBOT_1 / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 6.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Crusade Link V2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 31) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) SPEC. SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher + AUXBOT_1 / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Are there viable Jeanne lists that pass over the LI threshold that you fancy to suggest?
What about this? Spoiler: List Military Orders 10 TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 39) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Lieutenant MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
Yes this Teuton link is what I like: Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 2 KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 43) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) 3 SWC | 142 Points Open in Infinity Army
I like them, but clearly am in the minority. I do agree that they could use some tweaks, like having EXP CCWs on all profiles, but don't think that makes them the worst thing ever. Also
Is there any reason to bring a Father Knight? I love the models i just don't see the upside of him in a OS Link over the way cheaper Santiago. In all my list building at some point i drop him for the Santiago.
FK is a powerfull ARO tool with the Missile launcher. I tried this in the last tournament I got easely overwhelmed by non LI list and i only could attach the xenotech to the warcor or the techbee Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 8 2 JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Fireteam: Haris, Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 39) ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 6.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
MO7 (Dart & Knightly Friends) ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 3 KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 39) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 39) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (Fireteam: Haris, MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 36) DART Submachine Gun, Viral Tactical Bow, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 34) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I used such setup with success. Tough only once, it may have been luck :P
Well FK ML can be fun sometimes. Especially if your opponent hadn't brought AP HMG and you are rolling good rolls on ARM :) Otherwise FK is hard sell when compared to new Santiagos who are cheaper etc. itd. Unless you know you will be fighting Haqq/Tohaa (Virals) and that BTS9 seems much better than BTS3.
The simple fact that best Teuton Fireteams do not have any single Teuton in it, is a glaring evidence that the fellows at CB did not see it coming. And I hope they won't 'cos I fear that otherwise they will also strip that from MO just to please Bostria enduring love for Yu Jing Jokes apart, it is quite puzzling to me...
