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Attack pieces in OSS

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by MerloyJenkils, Dec 12, 2018.

  1. BigBadFox

    BigBadFox Well-Known Member

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    But OSS has linkable Dakinis with HMGs and Assisted Fire and thats the reason OSS is much MOAR awesome than generic Aleph :P

    Has anyone ever used the MK4 HRL as an offensive attack piece? I really start liking him and I think hes just to cool to be only an ARO piece. And additionally, its a different approach to the usual and boring Posthuman Setup. ARM5, stomping around and shooting everything with the SMG and the HRL. Whats not to like? :D
     
  2. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    3 nagas. 3 walking pains for your opponent. Plus Dart, plus Mk.2. In the same list. With a dakini link. Best way to draw hate from your opponent :)
     
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  3. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    You can make worse hate in vanilla. Fun fact, Nagas are AVA2 in vanilla, which is in a shocking twist of fate, only one less than in OS.

    I know you want OS to be good, we all wanted it. Realistically, it is not*, and pretending it is won't change things.

    Note: for all you who want to jump on me. I'm not saying OS is bad. However, it is certainly not good either. It has very few competitive lists, and provides very little over vanilla.
     
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  4. MerloyJenkils

    MerloyJenkils Well-Known Member

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    I actually kind of agree. Vanilla will always be more rounded and of course the sectorial needs some other toys. But I also think that those toys don't bring it a step further from Vanilla. But isn't that always the case? People are comenting the same thing in Yu Jing with Invincible
     
  5. BigBadFox

    BigBadFox Well-Known Member

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    But then again, I wouldnt rate vanilla aleph as top dog... and its a good design decission, to make some new sectorials only "average". But you may be right with the point, that OSS has to few key pieces compared to vanilla to make them outstanding. But I'd take the full linked Dakini HMG over Vanilla every day.
     
  6. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Why the hate ?

    And most of it, why that nonsense ? OSS brings fireteam. The most powerful rule in the whole game. Fireteams, multiple of it. Free stats, free bonuses (and powerful ones !). Order economy. How can you seriously say OSS brings very little to generic Aleph ?

    EDIT:
    To clarify things. My first post of being able to field 3 nagas was a half serious half joke comment. Nagas are good and 3 nagas are better, and we can seriously do things here.
    But i feel like your comment is totally serious. And i totally disagree with you. OSS is not bad, and i would even dare say OSS is good. It may not be to your feeling, it may not be what you wanted. And that's something i can understand. But OSS is still a different flavour compared to Aleph. Saying there are little differences and that it's overall bad (you deny it but it's still what we understand by reading you), that i disagree.
    But well, you're the same who find Yadus bad, so i guess we just have different values.
     
    #46 Nenyx, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  7. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    I'd actually rate vanilla quite highly. But that doesn't matter; question is OperationS itself.
    I disagree. I don't think they should be making newest things the best though - just spend time trying to bring everything to similar levels with at least several different list compositions.
    Fully linked Dakini HMG is nice, no doubt about it. But frankly, given what you have to give up to get it, I'm definitively not sure. Frankly, I'm playing OperationS these days just because a) Asura HD+ Lt2 (because I want Asura HD Lt, and no will not take the Combi), and b) because I like OperationS in lore.
    What hate? I don't hate it. I just think they could've easily done a far better job, with more interesting options. But instead we got this, like someone felt they had to do it and had no inspiration so whatever. Now that I see new Invicible Army stuff, I feel like Yadus were just something someone cooked up for them, wasn't allowed to put them there (not HI! has no vulnerabilities!) so they just stuck them into OperationS because there was space and no-one cared.
    They're not free. You are paying through the nose for those stats by losing access to things from vanilla. Dakini fireteam is very nice shooty fireteam, but it's actually quite vulnerable to so many other attack vectors. Which is fine, don't get me wrong, I wanted Dakini fireteams but they're not the be all and end all.

    BIG NOTE: The main problem for me isn't that they didn't make OperationS competitive. Sure, you can still build some competitive lists. Biggest problem is they only added a couple of actually interesting and fun profiles to play with. Why couldn't we get Garuda Super-Jump? Or Dakini with FO/Sensor/SatLink? Or Dakini Missile Launcher?

    We got a superconvoluted rule to put BS13 on REMs in link. Really?! Why did they even bother?
     
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  8. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I'll happily take OS against any list in the game and feel like I've got everything I need to deal with it. I wish they had a CC option beyond Andromeda, that's about it.
     
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  9. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    One day... one day we will get TO Camo Asura Motoko/Anathematic style. She may have even only smg. But it will be best day evah for OSS!
     
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  10. MerloyJenkils

    MerloyJenkils Well-Known Member

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    I do understand Nemo No Name point. Not that is not nice, it has fun stuff. But some things that could be awesome, like the cyberdancer... is a bit lacking, not that it doesn't work, but a bit meh. I love the concept of the Rudras... but again, there is something a bit meh about it. The same with the Yadu's.

    I like everything, I will play it but then I look at Varuna and 9 pt limited camouflage, decoy, LRL, 0.5swc, AVA 3 Helot... We do have nice things but damn that is one exciting profile!

    Again not saying is not competitive but is not competitive as Onyx, Ariadna etc
     
  11. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

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    You know, I view Yadu as a foil to IA, not as something too good or not in theme for IA.

    Aleph creates advanced bio-constucts, the most powerful, Achilles/asura etc are HI and hackable, but it's well supported that those are extremely expensive and lesser constructs are also created, such as Devas and Nagas/Daysus. Devas in the fluff are Jack's of all trades being used in all situations from diplomacy to "morat diplomacy." The Yadu make sense to me as a similar grade of construct, but designed solely towards combat.

    Similarly from a meta game play perspective yadus fill the role of line HI, such as Yu zong, but without the HI vulnerability, losing some of the staying power. (Less arm, shock immune +nwi) which is now a combo we see some other light HI get emcumbered with, while still retaining traditional HI weaknesses, I see this as a significant advantage that can be leveraged as a aleph player.

    They have access to tools, specifically the emarat which can penalize regular HI, while ignoring HI weaknesses, and retaining much of the firepower and durability.

    Creative new profiles is pretty subjective. Tunguska was super stoked to get "naval zonds" thinking they were 2 wound remotes until it was revealed they we're in fact AI bikes, which are also cool. I was bummed with Bakunin when it came out because I didn't think the changed were creative or good but obviously I just disagreed with the people who make the game. They viewed Bakunin differently.

    I think there are some phenomenal new profiles, like the haris sensor dava, and the AHD+lightning Deva. I like yadus and shakiti. Rudras have good weapons and tools, I value utility like mine dispensers highly. Other people like dude spam or camo spam. If you want to spam helots, go play Pano, the designers here don't agree with you about what oss means mechanically, no amount of shit posting on this forum with change it.
     
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  12. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Wait.

    Are you saying that Vanilla gets more options and a Sectorial is limited in its choices?


    I am in SHOCK!
     
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  13. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Or thematically it seems.
     
  14. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    I could see that, I agree that I've only ever considered running the Dakini fireteam, but the sectorial does also offer LT2 Asuras, which is a pretty cool option.
     
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  15. MoScotch

    MoScotch Well-Known Member

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    I really like that discussion here :)
    I had some similar thoughts concerning OSS, so here are my 2 cents:
    • First of all: OSS was what I always wanted to play when I started diving into infinity. Basically Ghost in the Shell: Bots, Hacking and kickass special operatives, so I was really stoked when the new models came out and the sectorial finally came to life. Even before I avoided most phalanx troops except Machaon because he is awesome and a myrm here and there for smoke. I love CB for making the new bots, and especially the rudra even more GitS-esque
    • Now that I had some time to look into the rules and mechanics I agree with most of what is said here. (I am no tournament player and the games I play are usually decided by player skill, not by the overall faction abilities, we are way too bad for that.)
    • What I dont like that much is the Cyberdancer Jumper Skill. I love the new model and the idea behind it - its just that the rules are kind of meh, you put that awesome model in your army but it will just stay hidden in some place, buffing your dakini link and thats it. its not really a cool mechanic. Its just a somewhat different Assisted Fire Hack which gives you +2 instead of ignoring cover (+3), needs a link instead of a repeater
    • Basically the "only" difference/upside of playing OSS is the fireteams, which are extremely powerful, I dont question that, but besides the Cyberdancer Jumper Skill, which only works with fireteams, thats basically it. (ok the Asura extra profile, which is cool, but does not change the way you play the model or the sectorial)
    • So I guess the thing is for people like me who always tried to play vedic within a vanilla framework: the "only" thing you get over vanilla is the fireteams and some new toys, which you will also be able to use in vanilla. In my eyes the dakini fireteam will see much more playing time, as the other options are just so expensive e.g. yadu core or the different haris options, but I think I will try them nonetheless just for the fun and diverison.
    • After writing all that II must say that I overall like what CB has done with bringing us OSS. The only thing I wished they had done differently is the Apsara Skill und perhaps add a little bit more of a twist to playing OSS over vanilla. On the other side I can still decide to play my "old" vedic/vanilla, so I can throw in a myrm for smoke if I like and want to use that killer combo with the Asura. Lets see what they will do in the future but I am happy as is.
     
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  16. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it what sectorials are about ? Limited choice but with more availability and fireteams for more flexibility and power ? OSS also have some troops vanilla doesn't, like L2 Asura, Sforza, CSU ...

    As for the cyberdancer, while it is somewhat more limited than assisted fire, you need to remember several things:
    1. it does not need a repeater coverage, which can be a liability for your hacker ... or others
    2. it does not cost any order through the game
    3. it is available from the very first turn, even if you start second, that is, before you can even play (and it still does not cost anything, unlike EVO programs)
    4. it works for every membre of the fireteam. Granted, only one can benefit from it at every action, but you can freely choose who at each action. You left the MSR doing aro duty but your opponent cunningly used the scenery to shoot at another member of the team ? That member can benefit from the buff. You're still in a difficult situation, but you get better chances. Bonus point if the hidden one was the team leader, you can still salvage it because :
    5. it gives you number2 to ALL rem in the team. Ever lost your fireteam because the leader got crited in active ? No need to spend a command token and reform the fireteam. Better in reactive, you can still keep the team and it's bonuses

    Apsaras are totally the "boring but practical" trope incarnate. Granted, they are boring, just deploy them somewhere in a cover and benefit from the buff. But the benefit is really good and vastly more flexible than assisted fire. And, i repeat it again, totally order free. That's 3 orders less to use during the game. Compared to assisted fire, it has less power, but far more utility.
     
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  17. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    Aspara is still model with good BS and one of best weapons in game;D
    If things go south, she can attack and be danger by herself.

    Yes, I had game where I had to rambo with her;P
     
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  18. MoScotch

    MoScotch Well-Known Member

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    you are right of course, but I have the feeling, that she will be hugging the backline until things go south and I dont know what happens then ;) but yes, I underrated her in that regard
     
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  19. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    I think it's missed point. The complaint isn't Jumper LZ rule isn't good enough - it's perfectly fine power-wise. It's that it is boring. It doesn't really give a feeling of doing much.

    Consider this idea: Aspara can choose at deployment any REM to be G:Sync'd with, following all rules for G:Sync although the REM still generates an Order. While G:Sync'd, REM gains Apsara BS and WIP attributes. You may spend an Order to choose another REM within 20cm to G:Sync with; if she is already G:Sync'd, old one stops being G:Sync'd.
     
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  20. Mruczyslaw

    Mruczyslaw AROnaut

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    Things really went south:P REALLY:P
     
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