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MO: Lists we couldn't do before!

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by GingerGiant, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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    those are close ranged weapons designed to emphasize CQB battle, which is supposed to be the preferred method of engagement for the teutonic order. Chest mines merely provide a template weapon or a cc weapon which ends up supplanting your exp weapon in CC (so no +9 and having exp ccw). Dogged doesnt really encourage asymetrical trading not at the teuton's cost, if you were talking of highlander rifles, you'd be entirely correct.

    hell why pay for bs 14 for optimization purposes when its so overcosted, bs 13 + mimetism would have been so much better, or hell bs 12 + odd like the ryuken 9. Or to truly optimize it, bs 11 or 12 and a chain rifle. With its stat line it would be a decent mid field fighter, not even a really good one. If anything those seem to be thematic options that help it fulfill a mid field role, without a means to get there in a subfaction that doesnt even provide it for him.

    If someone had designed an infiltrating domaru with mimetism, I'd definitely see where you are coming from.
     
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  2. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    The profile you posted isn't a ground-up reimagining of the Teuton though... They've taken the profile as is (stats and skills) and then added additional skills and weapons that are the most points efficient for what they deliver.

    I'm not saying CB have been any more imaginative with their update - atm the Teuton just feels like a more expensive version of a Magister, which they've also been made to link with. CC focussed with a Panzerfaust.

    RE: Asymetrical trading - Swinging at CC27 with a Dam15 EXP weapon and able to tank 3 return attacks from an enemy (unless they have a DA ccw at minimum)... That can stump rival HI and TAGs.
     
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  3. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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    from my understanding the person that posted it made it seem it was easier to add skills to the source code than to change values.

    i suppose the teuton would be able to trade asymmetrically with the non DA and above tags, in that sense. But it seems to not be considered a problem for the 26 point domaru to be able to im 2 tags and hi on 8s due to cc 23 ma 3 and berserk. But those trades would seem to be unlikely due to the lack of available targets. I normally consider warbands to be good at asymmetrical trading due, to the target rich environment they are in, with the grand majority of pieces being double or more of their cost( highlanders, monks, makaul,etc).

    I think the additions to the teuton, would be effective at making it more thematic, again we can disagree on that. But only because I can see how skills would have been applied to just make it more effective, like giving it assault pistol + chain rifle (with chain rifles seeming to cost negative points) giving it MA2 to synergize with berserk (for that +3 damage) considering ma2 costs nothing over ma 1 for some reason.

    If it was up to me, I'd have reworked its stats from the ground up to make a cqb fighter and given it eclipse to solve its delivery method and MO's deployment zone issues in one stroke.


    as it stands the teuton is as you said, merely a magister that is bad at its job.
     
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  4. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Apparently you mistake a suicide with "suicide like mission".
    Hint: same as with murder and patient dying on operating table.
     
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  5. Sepheriel

    Sepheriel PanO Enthusiast

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    Keep in mind that suicide and martyrdom are two very different things. Phisically taking one's own life is suicide, and it's a sin as it is seen as a waste of the gift of life, and as such it's offensive to god. Dying in battle while fighting evil aliens or pagans is quite the opposite, as it means giving (using) one's life for a higher cause.

    I'm no theologist but I doubt a NeoVatican priest would object to, say, a soldier detonating a grenade belt when surronded by Morats.
     
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  6. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Don't hold your breath on CB pulling their heads out of the sand...
     
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  7. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    That is what you call hyper optimised? Oh good lord, I'd hate to be you looking at tohaa/TAK profiles for the first time...
     
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  8. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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    No, this is a bit different. Removing your cube is knowingly lowering your chances of survival. It is going on a suicide like mission, and wearing shorts and no shirt.
     
  9. Sepheriel

    Sepheriel PanO Enthusiast

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    Well, yes and no. You lower your chances against regular bullets and become immune to sepsitors. Considering you're still wearing heavy armour it's not that suicidal a decision, even more so if you consider Trauma-docs are not so likely to be close enough to berserker front line fighters in the first place. If you don't expect support, removing your cube before a fight is a net gain in survival chances against the CA.
     
  10. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Especially considering that the way orders work as a finite resource, spending 3-4 of them for a doc to go to an unconscious guy and roll, still having a chance to fail, is oftentimes a poor use of said finite resource :D
     
  11. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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    Really depends on the force. Morat and onyx detachments would be a net loss as they dont use the tech. Overall if model availability is any indication of tech presence, sepsistor is a really rare thing to encounter.

    That's why steel phalanx is even used at all vs combined.

    Also iirc only cube back ups of captured and mia steel phalanx troops are destroyed ? With there being a mandate on destroying your own cube if you are captured to prevent sepsitorisation.

    So if that's correct, removing your cube does overall decrease your chances of living. While marginally increasing them in a small fraction of the time
     
  12. Sepheriel

    Sepheriel PanO Enthusiast

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    I'd argue that functioning without a Cube is a concept so utterly alien to an ALEPH operative (and to ALEPH itself) they can't even imagine removing it.

    I'm not sure how a Teuton would weight those chances. How much protection would a religious fanatic be willing to sacrifice in order to be sure he can't be brainwashed and used as an instrument of Evil?

    My point is... as I see it, Teutons are not suicidal. Far from it. They just want to be as effective as they can at killing aliens, and survival is a secondary concern for them (see "martyrdom", in post #125). So they wear heavy armour (because it protects them from harm) but discard the cube (because it expose them to sepsitors, as rare as they might be).
     
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  13. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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    I see your point, but I disagree. But I dont think you are wrong, I think we are honestly just interpreting the risk reward differently.
     
  14. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Read subsequent commentary - an existing statline was used and then had only cheap, optimised skills and equipment added to it.
     
  15. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Apart from having Frenzy nothing about Teutons is optimized. Base statline, profiles, nothing.
    Worst of all they suck next to other knights especially Santiagos, which leads to them being non existent in their own Core Fireteam composition most of the time.
    Beyond Fireteam options they got nothing and the Fireteam options itself are basically useless next to the Wildcards.
     
  16. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    You realise you've simultaneously quoted what I said and completely ignored the content? :+1:
     
  17. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Your wrong because he said the same thing but better. :P
     
  18. GingerGiant

    GingerGiant Well-Known Member

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    Yo, what about crazy lists? Anyone have fun with Teutons in a link?
     
  19. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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    Nah, the santiagos do their job better 100%of the time.

    The new sepulcher is usable in gimmicky lists. I dont like it but its only bitter medicine, the teuton is someone trying to feed you spoonfull of shit.
     
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  20. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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    Which leads me to the following. I dont know how CB thinks i defended a military position with some teutons in third offensive . Clearly they were just santiagos and the media got it wrong.
     
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