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Haqqislam in the age of 3rd Offensive

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Errhile, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. KwarkyMats

    KwarkyMats Well-Known Member

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    Mind you, we can bring 4 Ghazi for the cost of a single Heckler and back up those Ghazi with a Daylami/Fanous bot in the case of the Zulu Cobra

    Haqqislam itself is in a fine state at the moment, we just haven't got much new shiny stuff like the other factions lately. Just a dripfeed of new sculpts and Hakims. It does feel other factions get a slice of Haqq's pie now though.
    Sounds kinda weird, but I expect a lot of the cheaper troops to get killed off during a match, since you'll generally be trading up. Lose a few points to take out big targets.

    We'll probably be up next in march/april if the 2019 roadmap is to be believed. A lot of units are already ready and sculpts exist, it's just a matter of time now. It might be paired with a small rework like ASA or FRRM for non RTF stuff.
     
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  2. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    Year of the alien? Sounds like the year Haqqislam gets Impersonation Plus! :O:
     
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  3. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, because the Shasvasti have infiltrated the Caliphates Bioengineering Division and the are praising their Speculos as the newest breakthroughs in morphing technology.
    Looking at Miss Swanson, that isnt even to far fetched^^
     
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  4. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    I am sure we will see some new units for Haqq with RTF, RTF has too many whole right now and very low unit numbers. Asawira would be a huge surprise if they were put into the RTF. I feel like we will most likely see a new BioEngineered HI for the S2 spot. RTF is supposed to be technologically advanced. There is a lot of stuff we still have not seen for RTF that I think we wills tart seeing later in January is my guess.
     
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  5. Sojourne

    Sojourne Irregular

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    Maybe RTF will lean towards a Haqq version of the "Limited Insertion" friendly design we increasingly see in the new sectorials. A full link of Khawarij or Zhayedans is going to be expensive.. Hopefully they will be the wildcard options instead, able to plug into a cheaper Ghulam team.
     
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  6. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, I'm looking forward to the possibility of having mixed links with some of those new shiny C2 skills like Tactical Awareness and NCO.
     
  7. Geodron

    Geodron Well-Known Member

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    Without some substantial points drops or rules changes a Khawarji or Zhayedan core fireteam would be pretty awful. Khawarji link with Tarik would be pretty okay but the Khawarji would hold back what makes Tarik good (his speed) and the Khawarji are just jumpy Ghulam when being ARO'd. A Zhayedan 5 man link would give the Bolts a run for their money on biggest waste of points.

    You are right that wildcards would probably be better though a Khawarji wildcard wouldn't be all that useful and a Zhayedan wildcard would good if you really want totake the model.

    I am struggling with figuring how RTF is going to shake out as a sectorial. Right now with what we have for them they look to be another Haqq sectorial whose uniqueness is in being a more restrictive vanilla.
     
  8. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the great response! And, that puff spinning on that star is dang adorable! @.@
     
  9. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    I think Khawarij Core would be unwieldly due to the problem of maneuvering them and yet utilising their unique 3-d mobility. A Haris would be mroe manageable.
    Wildcarding Khawarijs makes no sense - any other troop is likely to be a ball and chain at Khawarij's legs.

    As for Zhayedans, I don't really know: I've used a Zhayedan rifleman once so far, and while he had a hard time landing hits on his target under given circumstances (well, dice rolled that way), once he did, the amount of damage he was able to unleash was incredible (keep in mind: Breaker Rifle + marksmanship L2 means, with luck, 3 hits, each requiring an BTS roll at half value, and ARM roll at full value with Shock effect, so potentially 6 wounds to be soaked). That would be a good choice to bolster, say, a Ghulam team. But I agree, a Core of Zhayedan seems a bit wonky.

    I'm curious as to what is going to happen with Naffatuns. As-is, they are great, but with no Fireteam they'd be outshone by other troops...

    Also, wonder what else does CB hold in sotck for RTF :)
     
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  10. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Well, according to this forum, nothing can possibly happen with Naffatuns. Several vocal posters dredge up the old "may explode" comment from the terse background. Which hails back to N2 as an actual game mechanic? Except for the fire fetish segment, who want fire guns, fire knives, etc, etc.

    While I'm vaguely at odds with the concept of fire being extensively used in the "super science" end of Haqqislam I'm willing to see how it plays out. Otherwise one of my favorite units and really needs a couple more profiles to flesh it out.

    What I expect is that Naffatun will be able to form teams with Ghulam, or the other way around. Or interchangeable. Or something. Given that the fire-team is the way of the future going forwards. Also I hate @RattlerNxt for sinisterly suggesting that they should get a feuerbach as a support weapon. :(
     
    #190 Papa Bey, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  11. Ankaa

    Ankaa Well-Known Member

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    I think what I'm hoping for most of all is some form of proper assault remote like the Lunokhod or Rui Shi. I know high tech kill bots aren't super on theme for Haqqislam but if any sectorial were to get them it would be RTF with it's strong arm military theme. That being said it might be odd to then integrate them into the other sectorials/vanilla but I could also see them maybe having access to Sputniks specifically.

    The precedent is set in QK that the Nomads are willing to lease their tech/troops for the right price, although I'll admit I don't know the specifics of the fluff that has to do with that.
     
  12. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    I did too, though I don't know whether I do qualify as "vocal"... :disappointed_relieved:

    As for "may explode", it was as far back as 1ed, and no, did not have a game-mechanic effect, it was fluff only.
    Then again, Fireteams ("Link Teams" as they were called back then) weren't a thing before mid-2ed (original Human Sphere book), and obviously never encompassed the Naffatun, as they weren't part of any of the Haqq sectorials back then.
     
  13. Dealan79

    Dealan79 Active Member

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    I just got my copy of Third Offensive, and I can see how they're setting up the need for Ramah. Our sectorials have really taken a beating on Paradiso, with one space elevator lost, and the other under active siege. Most Haqqislam territory is now occupied, with the Combined Army slaughtering civilians and destroying hospitals as they go. A point is made about how the existing forces just aren't suited to this kind of unrelenting brute-force warfare, no matter how bravely they fought.
     
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  14. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    I feel like Ramah will have a LOT of wild cards. Zhayaden and Khawarij are perfect for tactical awareness, nco, and wild card feature. I can also see them with haris easily. Also remember we still have a HRL in the Dossier but nothing online yet. I could also see the bots being wildcards (the artwork of the kameel patrolling with the ghulams in the hsn3 book I think?).

    We are also still missing a hand full of profiles to round out the ramah numbers. So it is still far too early to decide if Ramah is good or not, or expensive or not. I would hate to see Zhayaden or Khawarij core though as we would be paying HI prices for decidedly not durable models.
     
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  15. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    When RTF was first hinted, we were told (apparently) that there was going to be some wild link options. These days, every newly designed sectorial has what would indeed be called "wild linkability" back in the day. Sure, that doesn't mean CB must feel obliged to bring us flexibility to match and surpass what we've seen just recently. It has been a while, a lot of things has changed, including what counts as outstanding.

    Still, I fully expect to see things to match modern designs. The following will probably parrot what others have said, but still:

    - Linkable naffatuns; I mean, I see them as Haqqislam's best cheerleader + DZ defense combo, and it would be very strange if they aren't going to be able to effectively shield such huge asset as Core fireteam. I'll be somewhat surprised if we aren't goin to see ghulam+naffatun fireteam in some form.

    - Wildcard Zhayedans. These guys aren't poster boys of bloat and pointlessness only because they still have 4-4 MOV and also don't have a Core to be mocked for its total cost (like Bolts do). But they have 2 profiles that set them somewhat apart from everyone else, obviously MMS2 ones. Those being eligible to join core fireteams to match MOD-wielding gunfighters are IMO hard requirement to being worth it on the table.
    I also expect some sort of fireteam-boosting profile with Tactical Awareness and maybe something else. I mean, even if consider Khawarijis - someone who doesn't like strangers in their links the most - there are still tables where they'd prefer an extra order in their group to ability to pass entirely through jumpable obstacles. I mean, they will still dislike sitting close to enemy on reactive turn and they still can leverage super-jump despite not advancing straight towards enemy.

    - Al-fasid link of some sort. I doubt we will have them as wildcards, but something similar to Kriza or Yan Huo Haris doesn't look unrealistic. I mean, ability to join a Core fireteam would be straight up great. But it will also be reeking of unit being shoehorned into hardcore competitiveness. Other than that, it's also a decent candidate for new TA rule because there are so many things they can do, especially HMG+LGL profile, you will want orders for that.

    - Khawarijis Haris. Some say "but Tarik", but other people around my local area already prefer solo Khawarij over Tarik, as weird as it sounds, simply because one of the popular local terrain manufacturers makes all those 2-stored buildings with windows too small for non-S2 to jump through. Sounds like local meta problems, but there are also cost arguments. While Haris is more expensive, it means there are already built-in orders from its members, ability to drag specialist around, and Burst bonus on a Fatality2 model may be interesting.

    - On one hand Tarik NCO seems like natural alternative. On the other hand, we have rather efficient Strategos L3 (probably) which includes Strategos L1 effect. Without further inclusions it will still be very hard to protect Saladin without Hafzas, Ghazis and the like though, so there's that.

    That's not much, but the rest decidedly plummets into "but I want!" wishlisting territory. To name a few stupid wet fantasies:
    - Akbar doctors for Fasids and maybe Tarik. Hell, Akbar doctor for aforementioned 2man+anchor Fasid Haris. Some people just like to watch the world burn, I guess.
    - Irregular TA Doctor because we clearly don't have enough doctors. Seriously though, I would take one just to have an excuse to doctor small guys up instead of doing sensible mission-related things.
    - AD unit with something unusual about him (mobility, regeneration, whatever) because you guys keep pushing this idea so I'm starting to get the hang of it.
    - Some extra DZ-defending shenanigans because Saladin needs it, and also because some alien assholes starting to compete with with what the faction at large had before. Not likely because said "faction at large" already has access to them in vanilla.
    - Maybe something fancy related to midfield work, but what work Tuaregs can do is still very respectable, so w/e.

    EDIT: almost forgot it;
    - I would really like something being done about Maggie. I know its cheap loadout is one of the more viable TAGs in this game, but that's not saying too much. I really would like CB to take a look at 360 visor profile because TAGs in general are pretty allergic to being put somewhere they can be flanked, visor or not. Plopping it somewhere in the middle of the table on suppressive, like some suggest, looks like "turn 3 play" to me, something you do when the most reliable counters to thing you do are already dead and you yourself are desperate to hold the lane in question.
    And since it's a "wet dream" kind of thing, why not suggest adding a Sapper to it (although some fixes to Sapper rule will be required). Nevermind it's a "win more" kind of change...
     
    #195 Barrogh, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
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  16. vorthain

    vorthain Veteran Novice

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    Other than Hakim?
     
  17. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

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    Guys one question, I'm the only one that thinks Zhayedans need a rework?

    there go my points:

    -32 points for rifle etc... that got MMS2 or the sniper. This is the only porfile that is good but think about it why automedikit? it's just useless in haqqislam and takes a lot of points. If we have kawarj for 32 why put Zhayedans, kawarj are strongest on the battlefield there's no point to having them on the list. they must be cheper. take off automedickit they would cost 26 points.

    - Why HMG dont have MMS2? its so over? theres a ariadna spetsnas with MMS2 camoflage that cost 38 points. I think all Zhayedans porfile need this skill if not they wont be playable. In vanilla i make the govad compare that cost 29 points visor 1... Zhayedans hmg 32 points. Govad and Zhayedans are the same porfile just look at them guys...

    - Just saying that govad link team its hard to take on a list and its hardest to be profitable in game, do you think Zhayedans link team would work?
    i dont think so, for my expiriencie they are expensive in points.
     
  18. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Hold your horses, @Fenrir . We don't exactly know what is in store for Zhayedans. Especially in Ramah.
    Comparing them against Spetsnaz is apples to oranges: Zhayedans are elite Light Infantry, while Spetsnaz are Skirmishers.

    As-is, a Core of five Zhayedans? I agree, not a good idea. A lot of points for a rather fragile unit. In vanilla they would be competing against Govad or perhaps Djanbazan (who are MI, but that's a minor difference). And save for the MM L2 they don't bring much into the situation.

    That being said, I learned to like my Govads in Hassassin Bahram, regardless of the common opinion of them being less than favourable. That MSV L1 had saved my bacon a couple of times, really. And the general statline is decent, and the Veteran L1 works well with na aggressive Lt. Allin all, they do well as a rear-line fire-base unit. They really aren't that bad, they are just outshone by Muyibs (or outpriced by a Ghulam Core).

    Perhaps the Zhayedan are intended for the same role of rear area firebase (potentially with Haris), though certainly MSV L1 is more useful than AutoMedikit there (especially given the unit itself has Doctor for Specialist, rather than a Hacker like the Govads!). And while AutoMedikit isn't as good as Djanbazan's Regeneration (as it doesn't grant Shock Immunity), it is still nice to have - especially on a Doc, who can then get up on their own.
    Still, ability to ignore Cover on more of the profiles would be a major advantage. How would you like a Missile Launcher with such a skill? Shock effect on ammo would be merely icing on the cake, not really necessary IMO. Same with a HMG. Or Boarding Shotgun.

    But there might be a rework in the RTF release, or a number of new profiles that would make the Zhayedans more useful. We don't know that.

    @Barrogh , several interesting observations up there.
    • Naffatuns - I think putting them in Ghulam Fireteams would be very powerful. Even too powerful. Naffatun Duo hunter-killer team sounds more up my alley.
    • Al-Fasid, I don't really know. They don't scream "team player" to me at all. But it is just a feeling. Unlike Azra'il whom I remember working in Fireteams...
    • Tarik, well, here I disagree completely. Tarik is already a very powerful and popular model, to the point where many consider rank-and-file Khawarijs to be skippable. He absolutely doesn't need any buff on top of what he already has - the Khawarijs though could use something that would make them attractive when compared to Tarik.
     
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  19. JoKeR

    JoKeR HAWZA Instructor
    Warcor

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    well
    i have realy modest thoughts.
    i see all this "wishes" you post here... it normal. but call me a pessimist (or just realist?),
    i think the main sectorial things would be:
    core: ghulams & Zhayedans. of course some kind of special - for example one naffatun join Ghulams. i not belive in fully "as you want" mixed naffatun option... Zhayedans wild card options seems the thing to "save' this unit.
    harris for a kawarij's of course with their Amir. another Haris & Duo for Fasid's. special harris Fasid with somthing like ... Zhayedans?
    i realy hope we see Lieutenant L2 on Saladin here (& ONLY here).
    NCO? Kawarij would be realy good. Tarik not Lt options? not sure, it realy tight for him & Saladin in one list...
    AD troops? hakim of course, & may be somthing new?
    Skirmishers? Tuaregs. i still hope for AVA 1 fiday - just for a fluff - he would watch Saladins back...
    WB? not think were be any available
    MSV? eighter give solo option (AVA1) of existed unit, or create new one.
    this sectorial realy need Mi profile for their own use... may be all New things would be around it.
    Hi in 2s? It would be not an assawira ( as we know - they NOT assassins, but also they from another region army - it said they are personal guards of Shah), so here we need another one new unit.
    so i expected we have at least 2 totaly new profiles, which must close the gaps in this army...
    PS of course Maghariba Guards Duo
     
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  20. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, ghulam link with one naffatun and 1-2 zhayedans would already be cool enough to me.

    Well, people seem to *want* a dedicated AD rambo with super soldier flavour. But good point there.
     
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