I mean... Tai Sheng's in the same price bracket and has her own DTW with NCO and BS14. So yeah, they're kinda not worth the points. Shang Ji aren't necessarily bad in the sense that they can't do work, because they can, but more in the sense of they basically can't do work that the Zuyongs can't for less. The exception is the Spitfire leading Zhanshi, or the AHD which the Zuyong definitely can't do.
Against normal elevation camos, definitely. You got the points there, mate. I was talking about elevated Camos. Which tends to include some high priority targets like Vassily, Daofei, etc. Shang Ji would struggle clearing them out, and our map had some elevations - I am almost auto including Zhencha SMG for the job. P.S) Zuyong BS does fun against flat Camos!
Yeah, but she goes in a Zuyong Haris. Which comes back to the point of Shang Ji are overlooked because just about anything you can do with a Shang Ji Haris you can do with Zuyong for less points. EDIT: Well that's not entirely true. You could build an ultra budget Haris link Invincible Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 SHÀNG JÍ (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 43) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) 2 SWC | 94 Points Open in Infinity Army Personally not a huge fan of it though. The Pango makes it kinda glassy but if you absolutely need to cut points it could work. Somewhat ironic for the "superior" Shang Ji's purpose to be facilitating a budget link.
While I'm really liking Invincible Army, I still struggle to rationalize myself about Shang Ji. Which is pity. We expected more. Sure it does bring some interesting things, Tai Sheng outshines them too much. Frankly.
Can any faction be described - honestly! - as goodie-two-shoes good guys in Infinity? I don't believe so. Even my deep sympathy for Haqqislam doesn't prevent me from noticing some pretty dark sides of their fluff. Which is, IMO, one of the good things of Infinity fluff: any faction you should be able to like, and every faction you should be able to perceive as your opponent. Invincible Army does well at being presented as the people's army. Ordinary people, serving to protect common man.
Depends on your table, specifically the terrain. The base size of the Lu Duan means it can struggle with getting up buildings and traversing cat walks and bridges.
I mean to be fair one is basically the army and the other is basically the secret police. They are very much different sides of YJ. @Section9 I dont think you can call all of YJ war criminals for the actions of a few. Even if those actions go unpunished. It doesn't make the faction war criminals.
If I'm to use the Shang Ji, it's going to be almost like what I use in Ikari. The Shang Ji is only a little better than the Tanko for a bigger price but the Haidao is much better than a Brawler. Invincible Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 SHÀNG JÍ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 39) ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37) 3.5 SWC | 112 Points Open in Infinity Army Ikari Company ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 1 TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32) KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28) 3 SWC | 90 Points Open in Infinity Army
Well, I think we had that conversation back in the Uprising days already... and before that, back in the 2ed days, too. Yu Jing is a culture that is difficult to grasp properly for a Westerner. It can be presented fair, as a likeable culture, in the fluff, but it would take extra care to do that. I guess you could even paint the Imperial Service as the good guys - but the amount of extra care would be way larger to do that. I wouldn't call IS a secret police though. There doesn't seem to be anything secret about them (well, or at least what we see on the table are IS' tactical units - SWAT / Military Police / Carabinieri, and keep in mind the 3. Offensive actually describes IS fulfilling the role of Military Police in IA units), and even being heavy-handed could fly. Just a matter of presentation in the fluff. And this is the part where, IMO, CB did underperfrom, and did IS a miss-service...
I mean, it's people with a death sentence already. Is being a good servant to the state one last time to repent for your past more evil than death?
And Bakunin uses drugged up suicide troops in a similar fashion. Not to mention the questionable things the Observance gets away with. Kuang Shi are death row inmates. Included in that political dissidents but also violent criminals. ISS are extremely brutal, but necessary to keep criminal elements in check. They do catch and prosecute organized crime, serial killers, foreign agents etc.
ISS takes great care to take suspects in alive, otherwise Kuang Shi would not exist as a unit. Kuang Shi also includes criminals who aren't domestic terrorists. If people *always* got turned into Kuang Shi, no one would go quietly and everyone would fight to the death, leaving no-one as recruits for the Kuang Shi units. It's a reasonable assumption that only a small percentage of people get the Kuang Shi treatment: even if there are sham trials, it can't be the norm. Bakunin and MRRF police forces kill suspects on site, and Hassassin's are all about the murder of anyone who doesn't agree with them. There's also a quote on the new Helot unit in Third Offensive where PanO uses them as cannon fodder (like the JSA). edit: missed the punch line. TL/DR; Everyone are baddies in Infinity.
I believe that while Imperial Agents have the power to prosecute and execute on the spot, they make less use of it than some would like us think. Otherwise what would be the point of having Imperial Magistrates, including judges? Also, Imperial Justice is harsh and swift - which likely is what the people expect it to be - but if it weren't Justice, it wouldn't be accepted as such. I mean - there must be the cases where IS knocks the door down, arrests everyone present, investigates things thoroughly... then releases the detainees as innocent and issues an official apology for the inconvenience that met those good subjects of the State-Empire. It wouldn't work if they worked along the line of "every suspect is guilty, otherwise they wouldn't be suspect, would they?" (that doesn't mean the IS is always right in their judgements, or that there are no instances where they cover up their mistakes. No system is perfect), for, as @DFW Ike pointed out, no-one would be going quietly in that case. I see IS as embodiement of the old Roman maxim: dura lex, sed lex. Harsh law, but law nevertheless.
We all know the EI is only attacking the human sphere to rescue humanity from the true evil of Yu Jing.
I have a feeling the uprising provided the ISS with plenty of new "recruits" for the kuang shi program lol
