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Duo & Characters

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by toadchild, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Can named characters such as Patsy Garnett, Acmon, or Shakti use their Fireteam: Duo in their vanilla faction? Patroclus can, as his is listed as "Fireteam: Duo (Achilles v2)". But for the other characters, I see nothing that grants them the ability to form a duo with their "base" unit.
     
  2. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I'm trying to tighten up the fireteam listings in MayaNet and want to remove misleading skills/profiles where possible.
     
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  3. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    only if you use the Teampro EVO Program
     
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  4. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    TeamPro doesn't lift the default restriction for Fireteam: Duo that its members must belong to the same unit.
     
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  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    With what though?

    "Both members of the Fireteam: Duo must belong to the same unit, or those combinations of units indicated on their Sectorial Army List."

    Characters can't fulfil the first clause, so the second clause is what is important. Either the combinations aren't mentioned in Vanilla and consequently characters effectively can't Duo (their Secotorial Army List = the one you're actually playing); or you look at the Sectorial Army Lists the characters belong to (their Sectorial Army List = the ones they're a part of). I'd go with the second (IE When using TeamPro, Patsy can form a legal duo in PanO with any Trooper she can duo with in VIRD).
     
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  6. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Imp is right, the Duo rules only allow anyone to Duo if you consider their Sectorial linkabillity.
    Otherwise no one can duo as despite the skill being present on a profile it is the List of links that allows them to exist, not the skill. And Vanilla armies do not have any allowed links.
     
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  7. Omen

    Omen Active Member

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    evo hacking program "team pro" allows the use of fire team duo in generic list. So i would think any sectoral duo would be legit in a generic if your evo hacker is running the team pro program .
    and the model options were availble in generic list.

    Hope Im helping
    There is so many special fire teams now is a a duo with a character a special fire team Duo like several of the new mixed unit cores and haris teams
     
  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    That's not actually correct. An ORC duo is valid (with TeamPro) in vanilla PanO because "they are members of the same unit", this is true irrespective of the combinations allowed by "their Sectorial Army List".

    What's at question is whether two members of different units may duo in Vanilla because they may duo in a Sectorial. Ie is a Hollowman + Kriza Duo legal in vanilla Nomads just* because it is in Tunguska?

    * Assuming a Duo profile and TeamPro.
     
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  9. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Considering that whether or not a Fireteam can be formed is down to the Sectorial (see CSUs in NCA vs StarCo) I'd say any form of Wildcard or Special Duo is a feature of the Sectorial list and unavailable in Vanilla.

    So Duo ORCs in Vanilla is fine, but a Duo of Patsy+Orc is a Special Fireteam and a property of the Varuna Sectorial, so is not available in Vanilla.
     
  10. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    or those combinations of units indicated on their Sectorial Army List.

    Personally I think that makes it clear that if a unit has a duo in a sectorial army list that it can Dup via Team Pro in vanilla.
     
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  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I think that's a possibility but it's hardly clear.

    It's equally probable that "their Sectorial Army List" is supposed to be understood as "the Sectorial that's being played".

    I prefer the first interpretation because I think more duos in Vanilla is a good thing (not that anyone really uses TeamPro anyway). But it does open up some weirdness like being able to Duo CSUs in Vanilla PanO due to their ability to Duo in StarCo.
     
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  12. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    CSUs are not in Vanilla PanO. (Unless Soldiers of Fortune of course) But i fully agree on your post in general.
     
  13. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    Garnett's Pan Oceania Varuna (sectorial) listing in Army:
    Screen Shot 2018-12-10 at 21.34.48.png

    Garnett's Pan Oceania ('vanilla') listing in Army:
    Screen Shot 2018-12-10 at 21.38.41.png

    The different listings suggest to me that in Pan Oceania Varuna (sectorial) Garnett can form a Duo or Harris Fireteam as a Wildcard unit, but in Pan O ('vanilla') she can only form a Duo with another Orc (same unit type). But if someone wanted to explain anything that means those conclusions couldn't be correct, we ought to be able to work out out a solid answer?
     
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Interesting to note, however, that the Duo skill gives explicit allowance to form a Duo consisting of models from the same unit, meaning that a sectorial list is not necessary to for a fireteam of, for example, two Shang-Ji when running TeamPro in Yu Jing.

    (This neatly solves the "problem" of CSU in ISS and NCA)
     
  15. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    Right. So (sticking with Garnett and Orcs) in Pan Oceania ('vanilla'), since that profile includes the Fireteam: Duo skill, why wouldn't Garrett be able to form a Duo with another Orc (assuming TeamPro on an EVO device); what am I missing?
     
    #15 Wolf, Dec 10, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    As of HSN3, Yuriko is no longer considered a Keisotsu by the base rules - now the Sectorial Army List needs to point this out. In vanilla Pan-O, Patsy is not an Orc because Patsy is a Patsy.
     
  17. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    Okay, she may well identify as a ‘’Patsy’ and maybe even request her squad mates use a special pronoun accordingly :wink:, but doesn’t her full title “Patsy Garnett, Orc Troops, Varuna Div. NCO” rather suggest that her troop categorization is ‘Orc Troop’?

    Surely shes an Orc trooper, so if the other usual conditions are met, she can Duo with other Orcs?
     
  18. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    by fluff, yes she's an Orc. But strict rule is that she isn't an Orc. When you are asking the question are you looking for the answer from the rule or from our interpretation of what would make sense fluff-wise ?

    Also Lt Stephen is not automatically the Lt (one loadout is not the Lt even though his Title is not different for that loadout). Although Patsy NCO is actually an NCO, but only because they gave her the NCO skill, not because NCO is in her ISC title.
     
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  19. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I've always read that as "the sectorial you are playing" which in the case of a vanilla faction is "none". The interpretation you're suggesteing had never crossed my mind until I saw you say it in this thread.

    Except then characters wouldn't need special notes in their sectorial fireteam charts saying that they could link with their "base" unit. So unfortunately, she's a Patsy Garnett (AVA 1), which means without additional notes, she can't link with anything.
     
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  20. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Paging @ijw for fireteam clarifications...
     
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