Pretty conservative. Since I don't know your table, I'll just say this. Prepare a Sensor bot when facing space Camo men. I know it's a rusted advise, but in IA you can ruin their hat trick with 3 orders including coordinated order sniffers.
Yeah, my remotes are all in the mail, so I can only use 2 remotes for now, but it's still good advice, thanks.
I'm gonna be straight with you that list is awful, it's all over the place and has no idea what it's doing, and going second with a single combat group list just makes things worse. If you're sacrificing all of Vanilla's advantages in flexibility get a full core link in there to make up for it, even if it's Zhanshi. Your Daoyings have no idea what they're doing there. There are no remotes for them to buff, nothing really for them to do other than be glorified button pushers. To make matters worse you're paying for LT2 which you screw over right after you reveal the Hac Tao from the next turn onwards Between Daoyings with no purpose and XO Hac Tao you might as well have Zhanshi being the place holder LTs, you'd save orders at least that way Haidao Engineers are bad. Their primary reason to be in a list is to fix your HI that get E/M bombed. You know what happens when you have a Haidao Engineer? He gets bombed by E/M grenades first and guess who has 0BTS to ward that shit off. Zhanshi Gongchengs at the very least only get isolated and can attempt to fix himself before moving onto the rest of the team. Immobilised Haidaos on the other hand just look like idiots while the rest of your HI facepalm at them, assuming they didn't get immobilised too If you're hellbent on sticking to limited insertion at least flex the strengths IA has an actually spam the crap out of meaningful orders with NCO and TacAw. If you did actually play into an infowar opponent you're basically dead in the water. You need a KHD Haidao in there somewhere to at least stand a chance. In terms of list structure at the moment my mode of operation is you need to open with a KHD Haidao, and a Gongcheng. Those are non negotiable to cover the inherent weaknesses to IA. After that you build into one of two main archetypes: Zuyong Pain Train Core link Zhanshi Defensive Core link with HI Super rambo. Sprinkle in backup wildcards to take over the Zhanshi link when the ARO pieces go down. There are probably other builds you can make work, but these I feel are the two main ways to go.
Given that troopers in a link automatically leave the link if they enter a marker state, no. You'd have to stand around in Cybermask out of the link.
Thanks for the advice dude, I might give some of it a shot. The Daoyings are there to buff the only thing that held him back from pushing to my side of the table, the Chaiyis, B2 flash pulses sure can make a mess of a guy's eyes. Yeah the Hac Tao is the wrong profile, I sure don't want to downgrade my Lt. oops. And the Zhanshi lieutenant is a solid idea, I just like the ability to use both lieutenant orders to buff a remote then recamo. Haidao Engineers are the toughest specialist I could fit in my list, because my experience with LI-style lists is that they ignore your heavy hitters and rush the little guys, so I try and mitigate that. Yeah HI engineers can eat E/M grenades but they aren't too common in my meta. And yeah I'd build lists for infowar opponents if anyone around me played an infowar heavy faction, but it's TAK as far as I can see.
@HouseOfKings I agree with most of @Triumph advices. Something like that might work for you against TAK, especially on power-pack: Invincible Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37) HAC TAO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 67) DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Antipersonnel Mines / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army It's a really weird mission, the saturation zone make most ARO's irrelevant so you have to be very carefull when planning where to deploy them. Chain of command is auto include if you have it, the +3 buff to place the multi-scanner with the xenotech is invaluable. Ideally you'd want a sensor bot against camo spam, and something like a hulang or a mowang to handle the xenotech, but for that you'd have to give up on the hac tao and i really tried to stick to your initial list as much as possible so it was a nono.
That's an idea, but I don't own the S4 remotes yet, and I'd rather have that order to spend on a heavy hitter, especially when the Daoying can use her lieutenant orders to keep more regular orders in the pool. Thanks for the advice dude. Here's my newest list, for your viewing pleasure. Propaganda Video──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1 6 1 ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) ZÚYǑNG Boarding Shotgun / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 26) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)GROUP 2 7 RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) 6 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
The combat group distribution is pretty weird, 6-7 is a really unusual setup for Yu Jing but the TacAw spam changes the dynamic alot so it might actually be really good, see how that one plays out. I assume the plan is to if you go second start the Zhanshi in a defensive core link then swap it over to the Zuyong once you get rolling. If you want to juggle things a bit, we drop the Rui Shi for a Lu Duan. Rui Shi doesn't have access to smoke in IA, so we don't get the maximum benefit out of MSV2. Lu Duan still has MSV1 and it has holo echoes which gives access to Surprise Shot for better shooting mods and anti mine tech by walking holoechoes into them. This saves 1 SWC. Now we drop the group 2 Haidao and use the SWC we gained to slot in a Zhanshi hacker. Now we can give the Lu Duan marksmanship when you break up the Zhanshi fireteam for the Zuyongs and we save a few points. Now we drop the Pango FTO for a regular Zhanshi, saves another 2 points. Now we have 8pts left over. Pop a Chaiyi in. Extra order, extra ARO piece, and gives you another source of sniffers for anti camo tech to work with the Weibing. Propaganda Video ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 1 ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) ZÚYǑNG Boarding Shotgun / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 26) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 7 LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army If you want to go even further into cut throat efficiency, you can drop a Yaozao and the Boarding Shotgun Zuyong for a Pango FTO. That gives you enough points to add a Doctor in for another order and having a Doctor around. It does create a bigger vulnerability in your link team though, so there are pros and cons to that.
I keep thinking about how to use him in Vanilla. Since it’s only AVA 1, it’s a bit of a problem. Right now I think the Engineer is priority over the others. We only have one other Engineer since CB seemed to think we don’t need more than 1 Mech-Engineer. Second is the MSV MSR. He may replace Bao for me in some missions and opponents. KHD is good but I still have the Ninja and Kanren for that.
Well, he is a markerstate (impersonation) bsg specialist HI with 2 lp... for 26points... i will give him a try the next couple of weeks.
Don't be too hard on yourself. TAK is (in my opinion) the current top dog. If camo + order spam wasn't bad enough, 2 Antipode packs is borderline broken. If TAK wins initiative you basically have to spend your entire first turn digging yourself out from under the literal dogpile. By the time you've handled that threat, their forward troops will have secured the objectives, mined up the battlefield and positioned themselves to blunt your advance and then annihilate you, possibly crippling your third turn. Leaving you maybe one turn of three to focus on objectives. With Morats, hell even with Onyx and Combined I have to build specifically to counter Ariadna to stand a chance against them. Mission and table layouts can't be prioritized. I imagine IA will have to do the same, only without the boon of Hungries or other cheap warbands to hold the dogs at bay.
As I tryed out a few list, I start to think: Hopfully the make a box of Haidos, I need at least two of them ;-) Very useful profilies and wildcard option makes for a minimum of one to take in every list. In general I feel a bit unhappy with our "crippled" HIs to make them a bit cheaper. A HI with 0 BTS and a PH under 13 feels wrong. But anyway his profile is very versalite. Free Agent is more a nice in IA - even if you run 2 combat groups this will be useful in the late game - situationally. I think KHD, MSV and CoC are the main players here. I not see him as a attack piece - for this role we have the "real" HIs. The MSV is our only linkable source here, same goes for KHD (the other option is nearly 3 times the price of the Haido). All three feel good in a link. The Engineer is a good specialst option in a link, but you have to be very careful, if you encounter a E/M heavy enviorment, maybe the engineer needs a engineer than. The Red Fury is at least linkable - but I think I will not take that often (makes me fear the next blister of Haidao ;-). For the Combi I agree, I too would take it only, if I have to squeeze points. Overall I think it is a very important unit for IA and can stand on its own if it necessary.
I second you, mate, Haidao is a really good troop. I have been building all mi IA lists with at least one, more commonly two. It fixes whatever crack you need fixed for a good price.
Yeah tak is crazy good. T2 ammo everywhere sucks and we dont have a ton of msv2 to deal with the camo. I think the haido msv2 will be a hero in the matchup and I also agree with some of the others who say the engineer haido may not be the best guy to take. I find the regular engineer with a palbot to be more my style since for me I'd only be using him to blow d charges and occasionally fix isolated heavy infantry.
I did a similar list for power pack this Saturday. Just use EVO, and put a smart missile in a ML zanshi fireteam. Amazing ARO ignoring cover. Still need to do some adjustments !
I don't like the smart missile as an ARO piece, you can get screwed by Xenotechs hard. Regular ML Son Bae is fantastic though.
