Because rules say so ? Hospitallers have atm. no way of linking with Magisters, they are not Wildcarts nor Magister count as Hospitallers for fireteam composition.
A crusader engaging say a linked grenzer msr at 16 inches with both in cover, is actually on worse odds to hurt the link than vise versa. Such odds are further shifted against any defensive link with mimetism. I just dont think a single eclipse grenade for losing hospitaller + magister link was such an unreasonable request
Yeah, that's when you roll out that Father-Knight ML. Full link vs full link, both shooters in good range and in cover: Absolutely no argument here. Teutons getting Eclipse would instantly give them a solid role within sectorial. But the bottom line is this: We have no shortage of tools to get out of that DZ. It's not like ASA relies on its single Eclipse source to deal with long range AROs. It's not like NCA's only useful model for that is the Swiss HMG. Before 3O MO certainly was a bit boring, but even then it wasn't really weak and could compete. Now it has two more HMGs on high BS platforms, another Camo unit - and elite one at that, more flexibility when it comes to links. Not to mention it just got much better at dealing with hacking networks.
I usually use the Multi-Rifle/LFT crusader who has a variety of options against links, including a suicidal dash forward to apply flames to everybody. Usually leaves links with a couple of bad options: 1) Everybody dodge, at which point crusader moves into a better position and applies flames to whoever is left 2) Shoot back, which breaks the link, at which point your other options should have an easier time of it. However, note that I said "shoot in the back", as in flanking, so no cover, at which point that Grenzer is in serious trouble. Same with Dart.
Ill 100% admit im surprised the fk has such decent odds in a b2 vs b2 engagement, the grenzers odds of wounding the fk obviously climb with a ml, but still. As you can see above i am not in disagreement that seraph and tik are decent shots from deployment. Im just trying to clear misconceptions about all these other units people think are useful for clearing roadblocks, just like i call out people who say the teuton is an avatar killer (which he is statistically terrible at)
In a properly set up board vs a well setup opponent. Getting a crusader to shoot a defensive link while they dont benefit from cover should be incredibly difficult. Bar combat jumping behind them and praying they dont have an aro for where you land there isnt much of a situation where that is common
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I find it pretty rare that models have cover from more than one direction, but it does happen. What I never have seen is an entire link team with cover from multiple sides. So based on this assertion, getting to a point where you can shoot them from the side isn't that difficult, even without combat jump. Just walk in from the side, and go to town. Even if you're correct, and most of the link team somehow has cover from multiple angles, the LFT usually makes that a moot point.
The entire link doesnt need cover fron multiple sides, just the model or 2 that is being presented as threat to your deployment. The lft is a great tool, but certainly a secondary assault piece, it shouldnt be easy for you to just drop one in and merrily walk it into range of their link with a crusaders 4-2 movement
If they have cover from the deployment, then they are not going to have any cover from the flanks, which the Crusader can exploit.
if a link is in its deployment zone, walking in outside their deployment zone means that you are tracing your line of fire diagonally through the cover piece in front of them, so more of them than not, a link team in its own deployment zone (kinda hard for them to get out of it, if you are struggling to get out of your deployment zone and you are going first) will have cover from an AD trooper. Unless you drop unseen from the side and manage to move unseen to a spot in their deployment zone that also has a good line of fire.
And if they're in their DZ, the 8" 3/4" LFT template should be able to get them, if I can't shoot them from the side.
im pointing out that it is pretty difficult to find a spot you can walk in, and be out of line of sight and still be within lft template range if the opponent deployed properly. Yeah sometimes you'll have to drop in an chance eating the hits to try and actually play the rest of the game, but it isnt ideal or good by any means. Ad troopers tend to be good second wave attack pieces, who can come in and punish weakened opposition , but they can actively engage most hard blocking points, specially not if they are doing so without visual modifiers to help them.
I think we play on different boards. Generally speaking we make sure there's a place to deploy from off table without getting shot by making sure there isn't continuous LoF from one deployment to the other along at least one board edge. Now that doesn't guarantee that you won't need to spend a few orders getting into position, but generally speaking I expect to have a reasonable chance to do a suicide rush, go around the corner and have 1 or more pieces I can put into a LFT template. That's going to be about 11 1/2", between 8 3/4" long template and 1" to go around the corner, and 3" of advance. I agree this is another good use of them. To be very frank with you I agree with Stoipa, I expect to take a few different tools to be able to break out of deployment. An AD Trooper is just one, and I'll use whatever is more advantageous at the time.
I did my best Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 2 KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 43) KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 4 2 FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army This is as far as I can salvage the situation. You have dual Santiago Spitfires to discourage your opponent from trying to hunt your Lt down like a dog. The list itself relies on a Teuton Fireteam Core composed out of Magisters/Santiagos + 1 OS. The HRL OS has a spare in case you need one, as it's crucial to be able to leave your DZ against AROs that beat your Spitfire's range. It feels rather underwhelming and I'm not a fan of the solutions I had to settle for to mitigate the core problems of the faction.
Soooo they give fireteam core to the teuton so we can finally play them ... ... all teuton fireteam end up with santiago/magister/OS and zero teuton that is just sad
I don't even know why everybody keep calling a core with Magister + Wildcards a "Teuton Fireteam Core", Magisters can also make Cores by their own...