Cynical version? It's because they need a reason for Varuna to sell all of its goodies and they kept harping on about Orcs getting Varuna profiles and a box when VIRD came out.
Stealth on a HI is real good. I play Nomads and setting up Pitcher and Repeater networks so HI can be hit by Oblivions from my AHDs and HD+s in ARO is a very effective tactic. VORCs are super stripped down still, but BS 14, 2 W, ARM 4 and Stealth for that cost? Hell yeah. Plus the terrain skills are basically free, and if you play on boards with such terrain (and you should) you'll realise how badass they will make your HI.
Varuna doesn't have Hospitallers. Kamau don't have 2 wounds. There are situations where a Varuna player will need the durability that ORCs bring.
ORC's biggest problem has always been, they're not as good as the other HI PanO can field. Take away the competition and they're perfectly functional, with some small redundancy built-in that is easily covered by cheaper troops elsewhere in the list. Especially since there is no good reason not to bring Fugazi IMO. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want an ORC loadout with Drop Bears and a LSG...
Sadly, this is a story that tends to be rather interchangeable I hear. As in you can replace ''ORCs'' with some other factions HI and replace ''PanO'' with that other faction, and it'd remain accurate to some degree. Is kinda sad, really.
pay for useless 14 PH make ORC too expensive kamau can't survive chain rifle but ORC cost as much as one kamau and a fusilier so ... if you want a rambo in varuna just take a TAG
okay then show me some competitive list with mobile brigada, ORC or Janissaries then x) I think all Infinity players underestimate standard HI but it might be a meta thing, I'm playing mostly against Nomad and haqq islam so full of hacker or full of jammer
I can show you plenty of VIRD lists with an ORC that will be totally competitive, especially since a TAG can't fit in an objective room. Plus stealth for ORCs in Varuna helps with the problem you're describing. Bypassing Jammers and repeater nets is easier.
I'd say it is indeed more or less a meta thing to an extent. I'd dare say running some form of a ''Here, I have a lotta HI'' list is possible in ''most'' metas ( Excluding those that tend to delve into some extreme ends, like a meta where EVERYONE and their great grandparents spends a majority of their SWC on hacking. ) with some minor adjustments based on the meta. Granted, some metas, such as a very Ariadna rich meta could probably have more enjoyment with someone barging in with a full HI core than a Nomad and Haqq saturated meta, but the grass is greener on the other side of the fence or however that weird metaphor goes-
Are they? This is a serious question, and what I see when I look through the PanO HI options are a few patterns. 1) Models that are strictly better, but cost more points, often times a LOT more points. I would put the Aquila, Swiss, Guarda De Assalto, KotHS, Fersen, Joan, Father Knights. Sometimes you get what you pay for, other times I feel they're too expensive for what they bring, and I'd rather the "cheap" beat stick. Aquila guard's MSV3 is a good example of tech I don't have much use for, between Sensor, and not seeing a lot of camo spam locally. Swiss Guard is amazing, but not always Orc + 2 Fusiliers amazing. 2) Models that are "better", and cost fewer points, but have a steep discount for Frenzy. I would place Hospitaller, Santiago, and Teuton. I think this indicates a fundamental problem with the Frenzy discount, and how it plays out on the table, rather than a problem for Orcs. These models are cheaper, and yet I don't see the downside of Frenzy come into play. Generally they either don't kill something soon enough, they're in a link team, or myself or my opponent forgets about it. As a general observation disabilities that turn on mid-game for some models are a hard mechanism to track. I think Frenzy's penalty should kick in immediately, or you be required to mark the model immediately otherwise it's easy to forget. It's also difficult to hold your opponent accountable because you pretty much need to remember which models have Frenzy, which is going to be rare. I'm lucky if I can remember that my opponents model with the spitfire has a spitfire, let alone that during their last turn 20 minutes ago their model killed something, and they're a frenzy trooper, and now need to act accordingly. Even if played correctly the Frenzy penalty doesn't seem to balance with the steep discount. Hospitaller Multi-Rifle vs Orc shows that the Hospitaller gets a DA CCW, CC21, +1 WIP, +3 BTS, Religious, and MA L2, and is still 5 points cheaper. Based on this, I'm guessing the discount for Frenzy must be around 8-10 points, which is amazing. Given an option between the Hospitaller and the Orc, I'll pick the Hospitaller every time. That having been said I'd be surprised if this wasn't radically changed during the next edition change. So I don't accept that the Orc is overcosted, but rather that the Hospitaller is undercosted. This distinction matters in cases like Varuna sectorial where I don't have access to any HI with a Frenzy discount. 3) Models that are not "normal" HI, and fill other roles. They're just too different to be able to make a reasonable comparison. I'd place the Magisters and the new Knights of Montesa into that category.
I've used Janissaries with Hafza a few times, they kick arse. When you're a BS 16 HMG you don't need mimetism or MSV, you just mow them down!
Especially when you dont have the points for the cutter. There are really only 3 profiles in varuna that can take a hit and keep going and thats the ORC and the Cutter or Squalo
Coming from Ariadna, I love the orc. Great stats, no real bloat, and good weapons. I mean they're no Vet Kazak but still good. If they had memitism they would be amazing imo
If you love the ORC I have a Hospitaller to sell to you! Same great raw stats feel, with extra Martial Arts! We even throw in a Frenzy discount! So come on down to MrNailbrain’s Used Power Armor Emporium, where we sell only the highest quality blue-painted armored exoskeletons!
Why go for a run down, used suit of servo powered armor when you can fork over some extra savings on some real, strong servos worth every single dime? Why dontcha invest some of that hard earned money on a real pristine piece of hardware like the Swiss Guard, perhaps? Or why not indulge your ocular senses with the finest visor design in the sphere with an Aquila Guard? Think about it, okay? ( Seriously though, I am sold on PanO purely thanks to the HI. Same thing with Yu Jing. If you can prove to me that a given faction can grab a bucnha HI and go do stuff with them, it increases the probability of me actually liking said faction. )
