Is the game getting too complex?

But why?

 

While I mostly agree with the point, I don't think this is a great example, as those are only superficially the same class of weapon. Notably, the better range bands on the Red Fury make it handle substantially differently than a Shock Spitfire would.

 

Cause valour is significantly cheaper than having a second wound. But if shock is rare, which it was before these changes, theyre functionally identical

 

I wouldn't know, I only engage/am engaged in +3 range bands

Also I would substitute the word "substantially" for "slightly" in this case. For 8 inches, it is one pip of range mods less the wrong tool for the job. I've never packed a red fury over a spitfire for the range, it's cost and shock and SWC cost that makes it popular.

 

Unless you want to revive somebody.

 

I don't like shock being given out like candy. And I don't like that other units get to have NWI AND Shock Immunity. If my Odalisques are Superman (which they aren't, but bear with me), Shock is Kryptonite and every bad guy has it. And then you create Superduperman, who's immune to Kryptonite because Kryptonite vulnerability is lame.

Then why in the name of all things cinnamon swirled did you make Kryptonite as accesible as aspirin in the first place?

 

Sure, but a minor buff in comparison to the meat and potatoes of how many times can I get shot before having a sleep. Prermanent or otherwise.

To be fair, almost all instances of nwi+shock immune are heavy infantry or the pinnacle of lhost tech.

Shock is more prevalent but imo it feels everywhere way more because it was basically non-existent before.

 

Shock isn't that prevalent.

HMGs, Spitfires and MSRs probably statistically cause more than half the wounds you suffer in most games. It's prevalent that your opponent probably has a 2-3 things that can shoot it though. Maybe more or less depending on faction.

 

Mines and submachine guns are everywhere dude.

 

Ehhhhh are they though

I took two Tunguska lists to my last tournament. Both had Mary Problems and a Puppetactica Puppet Master, in one he had a mine. Raoul also has drop bears, he was in one list. The Hollow link, Grenzer/Securitate/Perseus link, Heckler, Spektr Sniper, flash pulse bot, Daktari and Clockmaker lack shock.

That's 1-2 troops who are actively seeking out the enemy who have shock. That's not a lot. If I had twice as many... that still means most of my troops aren't packing shock. The big scary heavy weapons don't pack shock. Chain Rifles don't pack shock. Most casualties are from Spitfires, HMGs, Missile Launchers, HMGs and chain rifles because of piece trading. No shock.

Shock is around. It's in almost every list. It's also not present in most of those lists. Most lists for competitive play have MSV (on powerful active turn heavy weapons usually) but we still rate mimetism, ODD, TO Camo etc. Same with NWI.

 

I think that summary is sufficiently representative of most lists, but let me ask you this; how many troops did you have in total that were actively seeking out enemy troopers? To be perfectly honest, no one would care what your Daktari is carrying because that one won't come after them and be an issue unless the Nomad player is losing pretty soundly.

 

Don't forget nearly every remote is firing shock ammo.

 

Well, you've got my main link, Spitfire and ML for the Hollow Men, Spitfire and MSR (and Perseus) for the Grenzers. That's the main source of my long range firepower, the secondary source being a Spektr MSR.

Then you've got Raoul, Mary and I guesssss the Heckler who are decent guts to put orders in for killing. Of those, two have shock ammo. So of all my active shooting, assuming we count Raoul for his DBs, that's 2 out of 5/6. I'll say 5 since ideally I'd rather use the bigger guns than a Heckler combi. That's decent as a fraction goes, but in terms of anything that is doing it outside of 8" there's no shock.

Now let's look at the last CJC I played which I feel is pretty competitive. Jaguar core, no shock. Intruder MSR and HMG, no shock. Double Moran, alright there's your shock. Bandit, no shock. Support troops, no shock. So in that list, Koalas plus whatever the Bandit can nick. Of my active killers, almost nothing. In fact, nothing. Koalas are a reactive weapon.

Riot Grrl Bakunin core? Multi Rifle. Zero Mines... Errrr think that's it. Yeah every list has it. Not a lot of lists have more than a little of it. Some do more than others, admittedly, but that's fine. PanO has more MSV too, some factions and Sectorals find it easier to chew through NWI troops (and Multiwound troops, and bs mods, and camo markers, and hackable enemies...)

 

Jesus @Solar, calm down mate, let's not say anything we might regret later.

 

CJC could use a spruce yeah! Since when were Jaguar links, Intruders, Morans and Bandits not considered to be really good though? Must have missed the forum memo on what troops have been arbitrarily declared shit that day... :p

 

Intruders are fucking monsters and I like both their TAGs. If I played Nomads I'd definitely play CJC.

 

On the Shock issue, on one hand more prevalent Shock is good for troops paying for immunities, on the other it is awful for NWI troops and makes Doctors a worse option. The Red Fury is especially egregious, since according to its fluff it uses identical ammunition to Combi Rifles, which notably never, ever have Shock. I actually think Viral ammo is worse, complexity-wise, due to its odd interactions with immunities, double BTS rolls on high-burst platforms, Shock effect and the full functionality of a biological weapon on troops with STR. About twenty minutes of one of my early games was spent figuring out what happened when Viral ammo hit certain targets.

 

That is a really good point!

 

It's more prevalent than MSV2 or Smoke. EVERY sectorial has access to multiple sources of it (not counting knives). Heck, it's more prevalent than hacking, AD, and martial arts.

 

That's true

Still not that prevalent